Is it too late?
- Thread starter frogwoman
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krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
I can't see any way it isn't too late. 26 years of CoPs and GHG still rising, ffs. At the very basic minimum they needed to be falling a bit. I've worked in the building business retrofitting for energy efficiency and the stories I could tell you about failed initiatives, ducked standards, dodgy implementation - it's just shit all round, all the time.
Most recent case for me; I've just been to a friends house because she had some boiler problem, it's a condensing boiler, I thought I'd check her return temperature because when I can be arsed I do things like that. Return temperature was 65 degrees ffs. These things (condensing boilers) were made mandatory in 2005 because they are 25% more efficient than the old ones - but they literally do not deliver one bit of that efficiency if the return temp is over 58 degrees and you only get all of it if the return is below 40. When was it installed? Last year. The fucking installers literally never install in order to get efficiency. They haven't been trained to. Ask a heating engineers about getting the return down to condensing point and they'll look at you like you're speaking serbo-croat. This policy was introduced 17 years ago, how the fuck has no one noticed that it's delivering zero? The exact same thing can be found in every single part of the construction industry on anything to do with sustainability - no one knows fuck all, nothing. No one gives a shit.
A mate who is a HE says that they should have kept the old cast iron boilers because "at least they lasted 40 years", unlike modern combis which clap out in 10-15 (although strangely the exact same boilers last over 20 in Germany, but that's a whole other rant).
Most recent case for me; I've just been to a friends house because she had some boiler problem, it's a condensing boiler, I thought I'd check her return temperature because when I can be arsed I do things like that. Return temperature was 65 degrees ffs. These things (condensing boilers) were made mandatory in 2005 because they are 25% more efficient than the old ones - but they literally do not deliver one bit of that efficiency if the return temp is over 58 degrees and you only get all of it if the return is below 40. When was it installed? Last year. The fucking installers literally never install in order to get efficiency. They haven't been trained to. Ask a heating engineers about getting the return down to condensing point and they'll look at you like you're speaking serbo-croat. This policy was introduced 17 years ago, how the fuck has no one noticed that it's delivering zero? The exact same thing can be found in every single part of the construction industry on anything to do with sustainability - no one knows fuck all, nothing. No one gives a shit.
A mate who is a HE says that they should have kept the old cast iron boilers because "at least they lasted 40 years", unlike modern combis which clap out in 10-15 (although strangely the exact same boilers last over 20 in Germany, but that's a whole other rant).
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
No, US ownership of Greenland is a long-term military and geopolitical strategic goal of the us hard right. It guards the north-eastern approaches to North America over the north pole.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Not to mention possible treasure trove of minerals and/or fossil fuels
WouldBe
Dislicksick
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
Yes it is too late and we were never going to make it, the system is too complex, intertwined and has too much momentum. It really is a case of millions of poor people will die, richest will do well and somehow humanity will adapt. That's what we are good at. It's not the first time a civilization collapses. The consolation, for me, is that nature will also adapt, and ultimately, the sun will explode 
And that's what I think when I'm feeling optimistic.
And that's what I think when I'm feeling optimistic.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Does anyone else suspect that this is all inevitable and just a natural result of biological imperatives? Too much success for an organism leads to monocultural dominance of that species in all habitats, which destroys delicately balanced ecosystems and leads to overexploitation of resources, and then the extinction of not only the successful organism but of many others too.
Not that I want to let humanity off the hook though…
Not that I want to let humanity off the hook though…
bcuster
Well-Known Member
the aztecs managed their environs not nearly as poorly as we have; and they became extinct.Yes it is too late and we were never going to make it, the system is too complex, intertwined and has too much momentum. It really is a case of millions of poor people will die, richest will do well and somehow humanity will adapt. That's what we are good at. It's not the first time a civilization collapses. The consolation, for me, is that nature will also adapt, and ultimately, the sun will explode
And that's what I think when I'm feeling optimistic.
. global warming is accelerating...
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Are you thinking of the Maya?
Historians also dislike the term extinction or collapse for them, as while cities were abandoned for much debated reason the people continued to live in the area and still do. With some theories being the common people were just fucking done with the elites and spiked the fuckers in the face of various issues including drought and complicated sacrifice rituals.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
It seemed even longer than that at the time, although time passes a lot more slowly when you're a kid.Not forgetting that the heatwave in '76 lasted for ten weeks not 3 days.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
No.
What do you mean by biological imperatives though? It's capitalism that's got us to this position, not biological imperatives surely?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, for sure, but they were also exploitative and hierarchical as they developed in that way for various reasons, but some societies didn't collapse or over-exploit their ecological space, but were over taken/conquered/destroyed by the patriarchical/authoritarian/capitalist/etc. societies. So I think it's to do with certain forms of organisation and relationships rather than biological imperatives?
WouldBe
Dislicksick
I don't remember it seeming to last that long. I was 13 at the time.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Same age as me. I remember it was abnormally hot right through last few weeks at school, the 6 week holiday and still hot for a few weeks after we went back to school in September. But as I say, such a length of time seemed an eternity then, at least to me.
I can remember all the number one's in the charts that summer as well, without looking it up.
story
Changing the facts
We were down on the Romney Marshes that summer. It was hot and sunny and the grass on the marshes went golden yellow and the sheep put their heads through the fence to find something to eat, but I don’t recall it being too hot, I guess because the winds never stop blowing there for very long. The winter winds come from the Steppes*, like a knife between the shoulder blades.
* I don’t know if this is true and I don’t care, because it feels true.
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Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Fucked up.
apnews.com
Hidden Menace: Massive methane leaks speed up climate change
LENORAH, Texas (AP) — To the naked eye, the Mako Compressor Station outside the dusty West Texas crossroads of Lenorah appears unremarkable, similar to tens of thousands of oil and gas operations scattered throughout the oil-rich Permian Basin.
apnews.com
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Yep, what a mess .. methane is also the issue attributed to livestock. Cows breathe it out through their noses.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
an issue. not the issue.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
It will be "too late" just as soon as the number of healthy adult humans becomes too small to support continued reproduction without serious inbreeding. Which could be a very small number if there are reliable supplies of sperm/eggs on ice.
Fatalism is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Don't succumb to it, because that means the bastards win. They can't deny the reality of climate change any more, so now they have pivoted to spreading hopelessness, the idea that it's too late to take any meaningful action. The scum are willing to play the dirtiest mind games in order to convince us to all throw away our futures for the sake of their short-term gain.
Fatalism is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Don't succumb to it, because that means the bastards win. They can't deny the reality of climate change any more, so now they have pivoted to spreading hopelessness, the idea that it's too late to take any meaningful action. The scum are willing to play the dirtiest mind games in order to convince us to all throw away our futures for the sake of their short-term gain.
Cid
Proper break this time
I think a viable human population is something like 4,500... So yeah, long way to go. And regardless there will be people living/dying through any climate disaster, so got to keep minimising harms etc. There is literally no point in defeatism, and it's a betrayal of those who will follow and deal with worse. There are always solutions; they may be solutions to living in a radically altered world, they may be completely implausible at present (pretty convinced there are many technically viable things we could look at, more in sense of political will), but they have to be explored, proposed, tested regardless. It will be a thankless task for those doing it, but you have to keep that engagement going.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
You could argue that exploitative and hierarchical organizational structures are part of our biological imperative. Even our biological relatives like chimps tend to have hierarchies within their social groups. It may just go with the type of social organization needed for us to survive, with a few exceptions in circumstances where there's no population pressures on land or food sources. (That doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to make social systems more flat.)
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ska invita
back on the other side
"too late" and thensome according to this
www.theguardian.com
‘Soon the world will be unrecognisable’: is it still possible to prevent total climate meltdown?
Blistering heatwaves are just the start. We must accept how bad things are before we can head off global catastrophe, according to a leading UK scientist
You know how you put a lobster or a crab in a pot of cold water and heat it up and then they just die without any panic. That’s the human race. Two weeks ago wild fires raged, it was in the papers the next day, now? Nothing. Until next summer, when it’s worse, and the summer after that, etc etc.
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