Is it too late?

[Humberto]

The US tried to buy Greenland a couple of years ago. Was that a hedge against global warming or simple case of Trump madness?

I'd be surprised if they weren't offering Scandinavia an economic compact, and a racial authoritarian one too for their support.

 

[RD2003]

(The summer of 77 or whatever, before my time.)

It was the summer of '76. '77 was relatively disappointing.

I've been going about patronising younger people (something that I really like doing), saying that the issue in '76 was the length of time we went without rain rather than the freakish temperatures we saw at the beginning of last week. In my memory (I was 13 in '76) temperatures rarely got above 80f, that summer but the radio the other day reminded me that there were days when it reached about 36-37 celsius, which I also kind of remember when I think about it. Many shite summers followed '76, and. as far as I can recall, only '95 and the summer of about 4 years ago (2018?) came close to matching it in terms of extended dry periods (and my tan.)

What any of this means in terms of climate change I have no idea.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Of course it's too late. And furthermore, those at the levers of change apparently don't give a fuck. I'm guessing the ending of the Planet of the Apes is the correct one.

 

[RD2003]

Don't go. Great in the winter, if you like astonishingly cold temperatures - but in the summer it's an absolute midgefest: you'll be eaten alive, and if you're not, you'll shoot yourself to avoid being eaten alive.

I found Helsinki to be like that in summer '88 and again in '97. The fucking bastards bite you through your clothing.

 

[RD2003]

Of course it's too late. And furthermore, those at the levers of change apparently don't give a fuck. I'm guessing the ending of the Planet of the Apes is the correct one.

So where does this leave your 'anarchist communism' as the destination of the working class?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

So where does this leave your 'anarchist communism' as the destination of the working class?

Is this a rhetorical question?

 

[RD2003]

Is this a rhetorical question?

I'm just recalling what you say in the (I think) Anarchist Bookfair thread (at least I think it was you.)

But anyway, if things are as bad as people seem to think, it doesn't seem the future is favourable for communism of any kind. But I've long thought that organised working class politics is destinerd to be mainly defensive, with the question of power seemingly being off the agenda.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I'm just recalling what you say in the (I think) Anarchist Bookfair thread (at leat I think it was you.)

But anyway, if things are as bad as people seem to think, it doesn't seem the future is favourable for communism of any kind. But I've long thought that organised working class politics is mainly defensive.

You've done this a few times now. It's fine. I explained before but I don't mind explaining again. So here goes:

What I think is just and right is usually beyond my control. Sometimes those ruling over me may make decisions I agree with, often not. I'll never be in that club though.
I think organised working class politics would probably favour a different outcome on the environment than a profit driven ideology does.

 

[RD2003]

You've done this a few times now. It's fine. I explained before but I don't mind explaining again. So here goes:

What I think is just and right is usually beyond my control. Sometimes those ruling over me may make decisions I agree with, often not. I'll never be in that club though.
I think organised working class politics would probably favour a different outcome on the environment than a profit driven ideology does.

I'm not sure I have done it a few times, but what you say about it being too late with regard to the environment does clearly contradict your optimism about the working class ending up in an anarchist-communist society (unless it's an anarchist-communist society existing on a burnt-out, storm-ridden etc earth.)

It probably isn't worth an extended debate, however.

 

[8ball]

The fact that we've been experiencing temperatures that were only predicted for 2040 makes me wonder if it's too late to do anything about it?

I wasn’t aware of that (the 2040 prediction bit). There have always been a lot of different models with quite varying extremes and frequencies of those extremes. Not a comforting thing.

I’m not sure what “too late” means, really, I can’t see that we could ever confidently work out that keeping fighting was useless without having some very clear signal of the kind we don’t have right now.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I'm not sure I have done it a few times, but what you say about it being too late with regard to the environment does clearly contradict your optimism about the working class ending up in an anarchist-communist society (unless it's an anarchist-communist society existing on a burnt-out, storm-ridden etc earth.)

It probably isn't worth an extended debate, however.

I said an anarchist communist society was the RIGHTFUL destination of the working class.
Not sure what other predictions I made beyond that so no debate needed.

 

[8ball]

I said an anarchist communist society was the RIGHTFUL destination of the working class.

When the anarchist communist society comes, how do you see yourself spending your days (I’m assuming you don’t have yourself down for a merciful 6am neckshot)?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

When the anarchist communist society comes, how do you see yourself spending your days (I’m assuming you don’t have yourself down for a merciful 6am neckshot)?

Are we doing this?
Maybe my work will be distributed more equitably so I get more time off? What do you fucking think?

 

[RD2003]

When the anarchist communist society comes, how do you see yourself spending your days (I’m assuming you don’t have yourself down for a merciful 6am neckshot)?

Hopefully lying in a hammock, sweating, and wondering if these extreme temperatures are doing my chronic arthritis some good. Thankful that the right decisions on everything are arising spontaneously from thoroughly democratic street meetings and whatnot.

 

[8ball]

Are we doing this?
Maybe my work will be distributed more equitably so I get more time off? What do you fucking think?

I don’t know. Sounds a bit like you think you’ll be doing something similar to now but a bit less of it.
Amused that you seem offended by the question. Seems like what is being offered is a very important part of the picture.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Hopefully lying in a hammock, sweating, and wondering if these extreme temperatures are doing my chronic arthritis some good. Thankful that the right decisions on everything are arising spontaneously from thoroughly democratic street meetings and whatnot.

Which would be anarchist then. OK.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I don’t know. Sounds a bit like you think you’ll be doing something similar to now but a bit less of it.
Amused that you seem offended by the question. Seems like what is being offered is a very important part of the picture.

Offended lol. My life is under capitalism. As is yours. Maybe you gain from that? I don't.

 

[RD2003]

Which would be anarchist then. OK.

It's coming sometime, so maybe...

Anyway, cough, the climate...

 

[Ming]

The US tried to buy Greenland a couple of years ago. Was that a hedge against global warming or simple case of Trump madness?

If you were a decision maker in high office and you knew you’d fucked up (say Rex Tillerson from Exxon) and you didn’t care about anything apart from your corporate fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits what would you do? But you knew it was coming down the line like an express train.

 

[8ball]

Offended lol. My life is under capitalism. As is yours. Maybe you gain from that? I don't.

I never had much of a go at living in a world without capitalism, so comparison is difficult.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It's coming sometime, so maybe...

Anyway, cough, the climate...

We're all finished. Don't pretend I'm disagreeing.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I never had much of a go at living in a world without capitalism, so comparison is difficult.

Yet it doesn't prevent you from counter arguing. How is this so?

 

[8ball]

Yet it doesn't prevent you from counter arguing. How is this so?

Have a little track back a few posts and see if you can find me arguing counter to anything.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Have a little track back a few posts and see if you can find me arguing counter to anything.

Without me doing the work, if you're not counter arguing, why are you wasting my time?

 

[RD2003]

We're all finished. Don't pretend I'm disagreeing.

Even such a pessimistic, miserable cunt like me doesn't think we're finished,

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Even such a pessimistic, miserable cunt like me doesn't think we're finished,

I'm guessing you're older than me. I daren't say how much, but you're unlikely to get the full bill that my nine year old son will.

 

[8ball]

Without me doing the work, if you're not counter arguing, why are you wasting my time?

I can’t tell at this point what you’re confused about.

 

[RD2003]

I'm guessing you're older than me. I daren't say how much, but you're unlikely to get the full bill that my nine year old son will.

Born in '63. I wish your son, and all other kids, all the luck in the world.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I can’t tell at this point what you’re confused about.

I'm not confused about anything.

 

[8ball]

I'm not confused about anything.

The thing with being human is that it can be so difficult to tell the good news from the bad news.