SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Conversely, imagine the gains to be made from a big and unexpected boost to GBP as a result of, for example, a surprise revocation of article 50
Is Brexit actually going to happen?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
Conversely, imagine the gains to be made from a big and unexpected boost to GBP as a result of, for example, a surprise revocation of article 50
Flavour
hang the bankers
i wonder if any of the people surrrounding BJ and telling him with their most Eton voices "good show old chap, you stick it to Jerry, there'll soon forget about this backstop!" are laughing behind his back in full knowledge that BJ is heading towards a brick wall, on the other side of which is a cliff
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I think many of them share his delusion that he can just stamp his feet and get what he wants. That is after all how these people got everything in their lives up to this point.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
This was superb car crash TV. Bar the backstop Bridgen was unable to offer up any other coherent objections to May’s deal other than some faint racism and empty platitudes about directions for neo-liberalism.
Those who argue the debate about leave is dominated by the right, that there is no space for left ideas and that they wouldn’t get a hearing should reflect on the intellectual paucity of the Tory leavers.
The Leave Fight Transform campaign is a welcome initiative following Labour’s acceptance of the inevitability of neo-liberalism EU style and offers a place for the type of ideas necessary in the coming debate
Those who argue the debate about leave is dominated by the right, that there is no space for left ideas and that they wouldn’t get a hearing should reflect on the intellectual paucity of the Tory leavers.
The Leave Fight Transform campaign is a welcome initiative following Labour’s acceptance of the inevitability of neo-liberalism EU style and offers a place for the type of ideas necessary in the coming debate
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's not just that the debate about leave is dominated by the right. The right is in power and shaping exactly how brexit will look and what will be done in its name. Regardless of the paucity of their intellect, the Tory leavers are in power right now. Personally, the idea of Johnson calling and winning an election this year leaves me feeling something not far short of despair. It also leaves me wondering at what point in this shitshow people who supported leave from the left might start admitting that they made an error in judgement. How bad to things have to get first?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the point one lexiteer made to me well before the referendum was that the only way to get things to change was to vote to leave. that doesn't mean it will be pretty, this change. but the game's not played out and so until we see what form that change takes, and how reactions to that change shape what finally happens, it's a bit early to ask people who supported leave from the left to say they were wrong. i think a lot of lexiteers are playing a longer game than you are.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
There is going to be an election in two months. The idea the 'right' is monolithically in power and in control as you suggest, or that it is shaping anything at the moment, is risible to be blunt. It is split and possibly out of government within weeks.
At the election there will be two choices:
1. Labour's position is likely to be 'remain and reform'. In reality, remain and accept EU neo-liberal economics.
2. The Tories position is likely to be leave and turn Britain into a vassal state of the USA.
A massive space now exists for an alternative analysis and set of ideas, counterposed to the disaster of options 1 and 2. Both are utterly piss poor and devoid of hope. LeFT aims to offer something better and something to mobilise around whoever wins.
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brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Agreed, but when the election is called, those 2 structural positions will be presented to the electorate by more than 2 parties. If Johnson were to enter any form of agreement with the supra-state, (anything short of full-blown No-Dealism), the Brexit Party will clearly run with the betrayal line. And the LDs will certainly be running with the purist remain/Brejoin line. So I'm not sure that the electoral space will be so open as you speculate.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
tbh i don't think the election's the thing people should be concentrating on, should we depart the eu as anticipated, as it is the aftermath to that that will indicate how things may proceed. i think that the more important thing isn't electoral politics but how people respond to the er challenges which will be posed following a no deal brexit - what happens next year and in the several years afterwards. and if the government retreats from its current intransigent position, how that's responded to by people. it's not going to be all about electoral politics in the future, i think social movements and extra-parliamentary expressions of politics are going to be far more important for the left.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
It's not about electoral space. At this point, it's about analysis and ideas. It is about agglomerating support for them.
Ming
I shot a man in Reno...
And monkeys might fly out of my butt. The no deal is going to turn the country (or whatever remains of it) into an Ayn Randian lovers wet dream. A completely deregulated super low tax version of Singapore in Europe. And I've got twenty quid on it.Conversely, imagine the gains to be made from a big and unexpected boost to GBP as a result of, for example, a surprise revocation of article 50
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yes, but you were specifically referring to the choices that will be presented to the electorate at the next GE; although you're right to suggest that the choice is essentially 'how do you want your neoliberalism", that's not how it will appear to the voter faced with at least 4 responses to Brexit.
Yossarian
⏭️
Who did you place the bet with, and at what point will you be able to collect your $5?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I was referring to it in reply to a poster. The GE is merely the end of the beginning.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Fair enough; very much.
Ming
I shot a man in Reno...
Someone I've got on ignore. But I'll still pay my $3 to the server fund on Halloween.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
suitably churchillian
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Easy to imagine fighting on beaches.suitably churchillian
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
suitably churchillian
But also apt in these circumstances. Anyone who thinks the imminent GE settles anything is seriously wide of the mark.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i don't think it will settle anything
AnandLeo
Tipple Ripple
If Theresa May compromised with the parliament, UK could have left the EU while retaining good relations for trade and industry. Theresa May’s loyalty to the conservative party did not allow that to happen. Boris Johnson is heading for a catastrophic withdrawal from the EU with calamitous consequences for UK, and EU. However, whether that will actually happen remains to be seen until the intervention of the parliament. Boris Johnson’s contrivance tantamount to an Anglo-European economic debacle compounded by a sour no-win trade relation with the US. It has not happened yet, I do not know what might actually happen.
philosophical
Well-Known Member
Leave does not mean stay joined as far as I can tell.
Brexiters and lexiters and any other leave voter from any part of the political spectrum voted for a hard border in Ireland.
If Boris Johnson does not establish that hard border he will not deliver brexit on the 31st October or at any other time.
We nearly had BINO, and doublethink Boris Johnson will try to persuade people he has succeeded by establishing LINO.
Brexiters and lexiters and any other leave voter from any part of the political spectrum voted for a hard border in Ireland.
If Boris Johnson does not establish that hard border he will not deliver brexit on the 31st October or at any other time.
We nearly had BINO, and doublethink Boris Johnson will try to persuade people he has succeeded by establishing LINO.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Does that mean if I vote spunking cock the tories will get my vote now?
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Personally, I'll be looking Spunking Cock's manifesto first.Does that mean if I vote spunking cock the tories will get my vote now?
teuchter
je suis teuchter
We've been hearing about things like spaces existing for alternative analyses and things to mobilise around for some time now, including during the past year or so with parliament pretty much in chaos, and yet nothing's actually happened, so why should anyone expect this to change?
The various 'centrist' parties and groups that continually pop up and wither are frequently mocked, but the performance of any kind of 'lexit' orientated movement is even more hopeless still.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i fear you'll find the pages stuck together
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
i fear you'll find the pages stuck together
its a seminal piece of writing
He says EU citizens shoudln't have more rights than UK citizens, which implies that, under the EU, citizens are afforded more rights than the Tories would like. Well done you tory twat
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
If they are playing a long game it’s not one with any apparent strategy.
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