Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[andysays]

philosophical clearly has the upper hand...

I can't imagine anyone in the entire history of Urban will ever repeat those words, so let's savour them once again...

 

[Pickman's model]

e2a cba

 

[Teaboy]

philosophical clearly has the upper hand, so Pickman's model will concede defeat soon and then it will be over.

If the twunt was my glove puppet this is exactly what I would write, word for word.

 

[Poi E]

anywaaaay, so when the tory labour talks fall apart, what next?

 

[Ranbay]

anywaaaay, so when the tory labour talks fall apart, what next?

 

[mojo pixy]

 

[Teaboy]

anywaaaay, so when the tory labour talks fall apart, what next?

They seem to be progressing well. I say "well" but that depends on your views.

If there is one thing we have established is there is little forward planning or what planning they have fails dismally. If the talks collapse they'll just go back to making it up on the hoof.

 

[Pickman's model]

You are wrong because you are unable to substantiate.
Now run along and stalk somebody else.

do you know what? i popped back to have a look at your first post - you'll recall the one where you said you assumed all brexit voters were ignorant nationalist racists - and what struck me was how much worse your politics are than i'd thought. you don't seem to do nuance at all, for you all your opponents, the ones who voted to leave, have nothing to offer. there's no sense of 'perhaps they have a point', and this NEARLY TWO YEARS after the fucking vote. i'd have thought that in the best part of TWO YEARS you might have realised that people voted leave for a great range of reasons, from being your out and out thick racist - of course there were some in the brexit camp, but some in the remain one too, don't forget - to people who wanted to remove a layer of government which they perceived as being iniquitous to the interests of the working class. a broad spectrum of people from the far right to the far left. you've been a member here for something like four years, and you've said just the other day how you read all over the boards. how can it be that more than 20 months following the referendum you could still believe the 52% of people who voted for brexit were without exception ignorant racists? to me it's the mark of a very stupid man. what makes it worse is that you then went on and displayed a sorry lack of comprehension time and again, with the to-do about no-platform (which for you means something different from what it means to everyone else) and just yesterday or the day before the dust-up about your idiosyncratic use of phenomenological, which kabbes pulled you up on.

you haven't shared your views on many other threads so it's hard to say quite what you think about a number of subjects. but i wouldn't be in the slightest surprised if i learned that your views more widely were based on an 'i'm right and everyone else is a bunch of cunts' which comes across so strongly on this thread. that there's no real desire in you to learn more about an issue beyond grasping one aspect of it - in this case, ireland - and then beating that particular drum to the exclusion of all the other instruments which fall under the heading percussion. so, yes, your politics are in my view lazy. twenty months doesn't appear to have been a sufficient period for you to acquaint yourself with the first 175 pages of this thread, nor any of the numerous other threads on the subject. nor does it seem to have been enough time for you to follow the news and see the explorations of the brexit vote - for examples Brexit vote boosts case for inclusive growth | Bruegel or The fragile UK economy has a chance to abandon failed policies post-Brexit.

your politics are unfortunate because you see things in such stark terms - everyone on the brexit side ignorant racists, for example. you won't ever arrive at a reasonable or indeed reasoned analysis or understanding if you're so happy to write other people off before you've actually heard from them (and that's without your refusal to inform yourself in what had been said here for two or more years before you joined the debate).

and yes, your politics are amorphous. they are without shape. there are things you are against but there is nothing you are for.

i don't see any point in your continuing this. you don't have anything to offer: you don't entertain, you don't have a sense of humour, you don't have a single redeeming feature i can see. you don't have any real views on the matter at hand beyond the most simplistic. you don't have insights denied the rest of us. you don't bring a bloody thing to the table. so perhaps you should think about how you might better use your time here, and - as i suggested yesterday - maybe you should give the dulwich hamlet forum the attention you've so long devoted to this thread. you'd be among friends and you'd be doing everyone else a favour.

 

[philosophical]

so let's hear how you describe your politics.

Complex.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

philosophical clearly has the upper hand, so Pickman's model will concede defeat soon and then it will be over.

((((((Planet Teuchter)))))))

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Complex.

What is the content of that complexity; what are the elements that make it tricky? Maybe just a little list of preferred political positions to get the ball rolling?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

do you know what? i popped back to have a look at your first post - you'll recall the one where you said you assumed all brexit voters were ignorant nationalist racists - and what struck me was how much worse your politics are than i'd thought. you don't seem to do nuance at all, for you all your opponents, the ones who voted to leave, have nothing to offer. there's no sense of 'perhaps they have a point', and this NEARLY TWO YEARS after the fucking vote. i'd have thought that in the best part of TWO YEARS you might have realised that people voted leave for a great range of reasons, from being your out and out thick racist - of course there were some in the brexit camp, but some in the remain one too, don't forget - to people who wanted to remove a layer of government which they perceived as being iniquitous to the interests of the working class. a broad spectrum of people from the far right to the far left. you've been a member here for something like four years, and you've said just the other day how you read all over the boards. how can it be that more than 20 months following the referendum you could still believe the 52% of people who voted for brexit were without exception ignorant racists? to me it's the mark of a very stupid man. what makes it worse is that you then went on and displayed a sorry lack of comprehension time and again, with the to-do about no-platform (which for you means something different from what it means to everyone else) and just yesterday or the day before the dust-up about your idiosyncratic use of phenomenological, which kabbes pulled you up on.

you haven't shared your views on many other threads so it's hard to say quite what you think about a number of subjects. but i wouldn't be in the slightest surprised if i learned that your views more widely were based on an 'i'm right and everyone else is a bunch of cunts' which comes across so strongly on this thread. that there's no real desire in you to learn more about an issue beyond grasping one aspect of it - in this case, ireland - and then beating that particular drum to the exclusion of all the other instruments which fall under the heading percussion. so, yes, your politics are in my view lazy. twenty months doesn't appear to have been a sufficient period for you to acquaint yourself with the first 175 pages of this thread, nor any of the numerous other threads on the subject. nor does it seem to have been enough time for you to follow the news and see the explorations of the brexit vote - for examples Brexit vote boosts case for inclusive growth | Bruegel or The fragile UK economy has a chance to abandon failed policies post-Brexit.

your politics are unfortunate because you see things in such stark terms - everyone on the brexit side ignorant racists, for example. you won't ever arrive at a reasonable or indeed reasoned analysis or understanding if you're so happy to write other people off before you've actually heard from them (and that's without your refusal to inform yourself in what had been said here for two or more years before you joined the debate).

and yes, your politics are amorphous. they are without shape. there are things you are against but there is nothing you are for.

i don't see any point in your continuing this. you don't have anything to offer: you don't entertain, you don't have a sense of humour, you don't have a single redeeming feature i can see. you don't have any real views on the matter at hand beyond the most simplistic. you don't have insights denied the rest of us. you don't bring a bloody thing to the table. so perhaps you should think about how you might better use your time here, and - as i suggested yesterday - maybe you should give the dulwich hamlet forum the attention you've so long devoted to this thread. you'd be among friends and you'd be doing everyone else a favour.

“There are things you are against but there is nothing you are for” is a good summing up of a lot of people’s politics, I think this often. Good line!

 

[philosophical]

do you know what? i popped back to have a look at your first post - you'll recall the one where you said you assumed all brexit voters were ignorant nationalist racists - and what struck me was how much worse your politics are than i'd thought. you don't seem to do nuance at all, for you all your opponents, the ones who voted to leave, have nothing to offer. there's no sense of 'perhaps they have a point', and this NEARLY TWO YEARS after the fucking vote. i'd have thought that in the best part of TWO YEARS you might have realised that people voted leave for a great range of reasons, from being your out and out thick racist - of course there were some in the brexit camp, but some in the remain one too, don't forget - to people who wanted to remove a layer of government which they perceived as being iniquitous to the interests of the working class. a broad spectrum of people from the far right to the far left. you've been a member here for something like four years, and you've said just the other day how you read all over the boards. how can it be that more than 20 months following the referendum you could still believe the 52% of people who voted for brexit were without exception ignorant racists? to me it's the mark of a very stupid man. what makes it worse is that you then went on and displayed a sorry lack of comprehension time and again, with the to-do about no-platform (which for you means something different from what it means to everyone else) and just yesterday or the day before the dust-up about your idiosyncratic use of phenomenological, which kabbes pulled you up on.

you haven't shared your views on many other threads so it's hard to say quite what you think about a number of subjects. but i wouldn't be in the slightest surprised if i learned that your views more widely were based on an 'i'm right and everyone else is a bunch of cunts' which comes across so strongly on this thread. that there's no real desire in you to learn more about an issue beyond grasping one aspect of it - in this case, ireland - and then beating that particular drum to the exclusion of all the other instruments which fall under the heading percussion. so, yes, your politics are in my view lazy. twenty months doesn't appear to have been a sufficient period for you to acquaint yourself with the first 175 pages of this thread, nor any of the numerous other threads on the subject. nor does it seem to have been enough time for you to follow the news and see the explorations of the brexit vote - for examples Brexit vote boosts case for inclusive growth | Bruegel or The fragile UK economy has a chance to abandon failed policies post-Brexit.

your politics are unfortunate because you see things in such stark terms - everyone on the brexit side ignorant racists, for example. you won't ever arrive at a reasonable or indeed reasoned analysis or understanding if you're so happy to write other people off before you've actually heard from them (and that's without your refusal to inform yourself in what had been said here for two or more years before you joined the debate).

and yes, your politics are amorphous. they are without shape. there are things you are against but there is nothing you are for.

i don't see any point in your continuing this. you don't have anything to offer: you don't entertain, you don't have a sense of humour, you don't have a single redeeming feature i can see. you don't have any real views on the matter at hand beyond the most simplistic. you don't have insights denied the rest of us. you don't bring a bloody thing to the table. so perhaps you should think about how you might better use your time here, and - as i suggested yesterday - maybe you should give the dulwich hamlet forum the attention you've so long devoted to this thread. you'd be among friends and you'd be doing everyone else a favour.

I suspect people may have voted leave for a number of reasons, but I also hold that they allied themselves with racists.
However the number of reasons don't seem to matter anyway, because brexit voters said they knew what they were voting for, and any cursory investigation reveals that the word 'leave' was the one significant word on the voting slip.
There may be many reasons, nobody can assert they know any of them. You may be somebody who would use a phrase that Farage frequently uses 'the brexit we all voted for', which leaves him with what he thinks is personal licence to define brexit any way he wants.
The definition of brexit for me is wrapped up in the word 'leave'.
Hence my obsession with the border in Ireland (yes there is one in Gibraltar/Spain too) and how 'leave' is supposed to apply there. I believe that if leave means leave and not stay as you are, then there will be changes to the border. Not only do I believe it is the central issue about brexit itself as defined by the one thing we know, that people voted 'leave', but it is also a central issue by dint of politics, history and culture, and perhaps most significantly for me it is a central issue by dint of Geography.
So however many reasons folk might think they had for voting leave, it turns out that the practicalities of leaving is the only issue anybody can be confident about. Deals, no deals, Canada, Norway, peoples vote, managed no deal or whatever else weren't on the ballot paper. These are the things rather pointlessly argued about since the referendum, when all of those arguments are going to flounder on the rock of the word 'leave'. If there is another interpretation of the word leave that I am unaware of, I would be happy to be enlightened.

You wrote 'you haven't shared your views on many other threads so it's hard to say quite what you think about a number of subjects.' yet you purport to know what my politics (plural) are. Nifty footwork there, but not convincing.

Now off you go and stalk somebody else.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Jesus christ

 

[Steel Icarus]

It's like the Walking Dead, this. Great to begin with but then the writing, excitement and logic just fall away.

Please - for the love of Jesus, Joseph, Mary and as many of the latter-day saints you care to include - stop this boring fucking argument and stinking up the thread with a beef only you two care about.

 

[Ranbay]

 

[Pickman's model]

It's like the Walking Dead, this. Great to begin with but then the writing, excitement and logic just fall away.

Please - for the love of Jesus, Joseph, Mary and as many of the latter-day saints you care to include - stop this boring fucking argument and stinking up the thread with a beef only you two care about.

oh i've stopped.

 

[philosophical]

What is the content of that complexity; what are the elements that make it tricky? Maybe just a little list of preferred political positions to get the ball rolling?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

I am against smacking children, and would attempt to eradicate violence against children by education, persuasion, and where appropriate sanctions.

I am for the concept of Empathy being a central point of study for academics in as wide a remit as possible, and following that I believe there should be an empathy agenda associated firstly with all areas of education, then public life in general, and certainly in politics.

I am for better support and provision for children who are obliged to leave the care system when they reach a certain age.

I am against trident and nuclear weapons and would dismantle and abandon them if I had the power to do so.

I am in favour of all moves to improve the environment, and am happy to be guided by science on this. I live in Lewisham, 70 yards from the South Circular, and today there was a landmark ruling about levels of pollution contributing to the death of a 9 year old living nearby.

I am against borders.

Does that start your balls rolling?

 

[philosophical]

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Participants should be required to submit translations into French, German, Italian, Polish, Hungarian and Gaelic before continuing.

merde, Scheisse, merda, cac -skipping polish and Hungarian. You’re welcome.

 

[Lucy Fur]

... maybe you should give the dulwich hamlet forum the attention you've so long devoted to this thread. you'd be among friends and you'd be doing everyone else a favour.

less of that if you don't mind, we have quite enough cunts of our own there, we're not in the market for another one.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I am against smacking children, and would attempt to eradicate violence against children by education, persuasion, and where appropriate sanctions.

I am for the concept of Empathy being a central point of study for academics in as wide a remit as possible, and following that I believe there should be an empathy agenda associated firstly with all areas of education, then public life in general, and certainly in politics.

I am for better support and provision for children who are obliged to leave the care system when they reach a certain age.

I am against trident and nuclear weapons and would dismantle and abandon them if I had the power to do so.

I am in favour of all moves to improve the environment, and am happy to be guided by science on this. I live in Lewisham, 70 yards from the South Circular, and today there was a landmark ruling about levels of pollution contributing to the death of a 9 year old living nearby.

I am against borders.

Does that start your balls rolling?

That doesn't seem very (if at all) complex; indeed it seems all of a very recognisable piece. So where's the trickiness?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Pickman's model]

less of that if you don't mind, we have quite enough cunts of our own there, we're not in the market for another one.

he's one of yours tho

 

[andysays]

he's one of yours tho

And if there's a better argument against the Dulwich Hamlet forum I've yet to see it

 

[philosophical]

That doesn't seem very (if at all) complex; indeed it seems all of a very recognisable piece. So where's the trickiness?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Ball rolling. I didn't realise it was for analysis, and it is not a complete personal manifesto either.
Your agenda seems to be to possibly try to label my politics, and test for what you call trickiness, but what I originally called complex.
The usual next stage on these boards is to try to lecture me on the use of the word complex and whether I know what it really means.

 

[Poi E]

If something is complex it needs experts. Simps.

 

[philosophical]

less of that if you don't mind, we have quite enough cunts of our own there, we're not in the market for another one.

I appreciate that you think of me as a 'cunt', presumably based on what I have written here.
I have no idea what you are.
However it is cunts like me that make the many pricks around here stand to attention, as all the wasted words and stalking would attest to.

 

[Poi E]

Bent over with amusement rather than stood at attention

 

[andysays]

What is it with people complaining about 'stalking'?

Responding critically to comments people make isn't stalking, it's part of how discussion works

 

[philosophical]

What is it with people complaining about 'stalking'?

Responding critically to comments people make isn't stalking, it's part of how discussion works

I agree.
However stalking is being obsessively snide to a poster by quoting their posts, being personally abusive, and ignoring comments about issues however well or clumsily made.