The reason the UK didn't leave on 31st March is in a large part due to some of the loudest advocates for brexit preventing it from happening. Whilst you are right to an extent it strikes me that it's a bit simplistic just to say the political class has ridden roughshod over the will of the people. Its a bit like my other favourite the brexit people voted for.
Is Brexit actually going to happen?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
The reason the UK didn't leave on 31st March is in a large part due to some of the loudest advocates for brexit preventing it from happening. Whilst you are right to an extent it strikes me that it's a bit simplistic just to say the political class has ridden roughshod over the will of the people. Its a bit like my other favourite the brexit people voted for.
Steel Icarus
maybe I'm a maze
That and the fact we were due to leave on March 29th
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
For the last 3 years the political class has done precious little other than fret over the referendum result. They're eating themselves over it.
As for 'the will of the people' if nothing else this shitshow has demonstrated that there is no such thing.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
*gnaws*
newbie
undisambiguated
of course there is, but we're not asked very often. 33 million people voted to express that will.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Ok, glossing over how close 52/48 was, let alone that the 52 is only 37% of the voters, what does this will tell you about which of the fifty ways to Leave? I heard a lot of ‘it was alright when it was just the common market’ talk, but many say the will of the people must be leaving the CU, SM etc. How to reconcile those views?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Jesus 58% was close earlier. Defend the scottish leavers.
newbie
undisambiguated
That's the job of the politicians, sorting out the detail, reconciling differences, compromising and negotiating. Not just May and her cohort, all of them. That's what they were sent there to do, based on the election pledges their parties made. They've failed and there is likely to be significant fallout from that failure. I've suggested that may be on the streets. Maybe I'll be shown to be wrong, and Leavers all over the country, including those out there on the ridiculous right, will just roll over and accept that their betters have taken away what was promised.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
But you don’t know what was promised other than ‘leave’. Quite a lot of people seem to think their politicians job is not to compromise.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Try to have a conversation with me rather than some random thing you are getting from the ether. I simply don’t know what on Earth you are referring to here.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No idea? Really?
But May's deal was leave in a fashion yet it scores pitifully low with the electorate. The likely outcome I think will be some sort of slightly softer brexit than May's deal, something that will enable enough people to save face. Yet there will no doubt be people lining up to say that its not the right or proper brexit.
I agree there would be potentially serious repercussions if brexit doesn't happen which is why I think it will, it has to happen. It just won't be to everyone's liking. This is essentially the problem, just saying we voted leave and that should be it fundamentally misunderstands the complexity of the situation.
Equality is good right? I want equality. That's enough, the politicians can sort out the rest.
I'm not in the business of defending politicians, I'd happily see their palace razed with them all in it. It just strikes me that there is no winning play here, just degrees of loss. As I said, I'm enjoying the ride. I liked it when the Times started going on about getting the queen involved. Its merry chaos.
newbie
undisambiguated
Sure, I doubt if they're the majority, but they're there. There was choice, if those people wanted uncompromising no Brexit they should have voted eg SNP, LD or Green. The 80% chose not to vote for those parties, they voted for ones that promised to implement the result of the ref. Their preference was pretty clear, whether or not they say something different now.
Again you're conflating the result of the referendum with the result of the 2017 GE. What about those that still want to remain but thought the whole subject less important than boring stuff like housing, fair pay, job security, health and their child's education?
newbie
undisambiguated
If a national referendum voted against a proposition for full equality it would be wrong for politicians to impose it. If the result was in favour I'd expect a major change in the Gini index to be implemented pdq.
I do get the rest of what you're saying, particularly the last para
newbie
undisambiguated
what about them? The outcome of an election is always going to be a government which is expected to implement its manifesto. You are focussing on those that wanted to Remain, the minority, who appear to have voted in favour of policies they didn't want to happen. The majority, which is who I'm on about, might well have decided not to vote for one or other of the major parties if their manifesto had promised to overthrow/ignore the result of the ref.
The parties chose their promises based on what they thought would win. Their MPs endorsed those promises. No party that put forward Remain would have won (south of the border anyway). The LD/Green vote share was tiny.
Humberto
dreamin man
TM is not going to get her deal passed, so lets fuck it off and move on while there is time, is what I would be thinking if I'd any say. I don't see what point there is to a delay if she is going to have yet another go and have it rejected once more. She must know this, or at least know there is a high chance of it. Therefore it must be brought back to the people, the constituency they claim to represent. In other words a referendum. I can't see any other way out. Personally, I suspect it is the PM's vanity of getting 'her' deal through and making her mark/legacy which has put things in limbo. In any case, I don't see how revocation or no deal can come about without any backing or consent from the electorate.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
May’s deal is a was a very badly judged attempt at triangulation. It was presented appallingly. Even if it hadn't been was never likely to be a deal that the polarised administrators of the ruling class could live with. But, unlike Labour she at least had a strategy. Even now, bar collapsing back into the single market, Labour seems to have zero ideas or a strategic vision on the issue. At some point this will haunt them generally and Corbyn in particular
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
No party did win. But it's a bit false to suggest that a vote for a party is a vote in favour of all its policies. It clearly isn't. Best of a bad bunch is normally closer to the mark.
Its a mystery to me how very easy it seems to have been to hoof the can miles down the road yet again.The last time I looked EU politicians were saying that any further extension would have to be for a very specific purpose but what is the supposed purpose of this latest extension? No doubt May made much of her relationship with Corbyn but does anyone really think that her party will get behind her on a customs-union Brexit? She now has what looks like a perpetual licence to dither.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
What vision could Labour have on Brexit alone? Every turn is wrong, too many principles overlap, respect the referendum, do what the membership prefers, do what MPs feel is right...these are not reconcilable.
Stick together and make it hard for the Tories is the thing that makes sense. They haven’t done so badly with that. They cannot back a hard Brexit, they cannot back Remain and so they are in the sole space they can be in.
Flavour
hang the bankers
Several on here did predict that the EU would make many more allowances for British dithering than they claimed, as that dithering keeps the UK in the EU and further strengthens the EU position. Brussels doesn't lose much face over extending, if any.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Tha
This is probably the most stupid post on the entire thread. Which takes some doing. Well done.
collectordave
Active Member
The 25.2% that voted leave and the 51% that voted for the only horse in the race.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Shan’t. It’s far to fucking stupid to bother with As you well know.
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