Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Pickman's model]

I wish I'd copyrighted that phrase when I invented it, back in about 2002/03 or so

Royalties could come to a handsome total by now

yeh there's £0.50 on its way to you

 

[William of Walworth]

What if they have no other perspective than that though? Surely if there was it would have come through in some way over the last few years? It hasn't though has it?

I know, there's been an utter blank where 'analyse why we lost' should be.
I'm still finding it hard to believe that 'Kellner polled that we'll win' will be ALL they have.
If it ever did come time to another ref (at the back end of never, or only as Smokeandsteam states), there'd be all sorts of risks for them unless they end up thinking more strategically.

I might be remain minded, but I'm no fan at all of most Remain thinking.

 

[redsquirrel]

yes. When is the anger going to manifest?

Anger from who? There are plenty that are angry now (and have been for some time) hence the victory for Leave.

I agree that there is a significant chance of the extension dragging on and us not actually leaving, but I'm sceptical about the suggestion that that was May's grand plan all along, or that anything that can be meaningfully described as a parliamentary stitch up has happened this week

I'm not suggesting May had some "just as planned scheme".
But the reduction of politics to the parliamentary, something that has been favoured by politicians, the media, and capital, has led to the state of current state of affairs.

 

[redsquirrel]

You disagree that the City is formed of multiple perspectives that aren’t all formed around pure profit motive? What is it, a monothought clique?

Tories doing bad things because they are Tories (Like lying about wanting to Remain in the EU) - in their genes

 

[William of Walworth]

I think that's stupidly complacent if they don't come up with any better strategy than that.

'They' have come up with a better strategy - remain in stages. If a vote is called it will only be done so once franking their decision is the only option.

I agree with that definitely.

One thing surely absent from most of 'their' thinking/awareness, establishment remainers AND leavers, is the "Brexit is fucking tedious!" factor.
"Just get on with it" or "Just get rid of it" -- these are statements of the bored -- both sides -- and I think that's much understimated.

 

[andysays]

What's all this white awakening shite about?

Yeah, I noticed that, and thought it must be a typo or a weird auto-correct thing, but I'm starting to wonder now...

 

[Pickman's model]

I agree with that definitely.

One thing surely absent from most of 'their' thinking/awareness, establishment remainers AND leavers, is the "Brexit is fucking tedious!" factor.
"Just get on with it" or "Just get rid of it" -- these are statements of the bored -- both sides -- and I think that's much understimated.

au contraire, the tedium is at the core of the strategy, as making people bored of it is the way they intend to reduce disorder to a minimum when the walking back the actual exit goes through.

 

[ruffneck23]

oh nigel , you really have to learn how the internet works and the importance of registering websites you utter fucking clown.

The Brexit Party (almost)

 

[Teaboy]

I agree with that definitely.

One thing surely absent from most of 'their' thinking/awareness, establishment remainers AND leavers, is the "Brexit is fucking tedious!" factor.
"Just get on with it" or "Just get rid of it" -- these are statements of the bored -- both sides -- and I think that's much understimated.

I dunno I'm really quite enjoying it all.

On the other hand the whole shit show is causing chaos in my industry putting my job at risk which is a bit of a downer, the sight however, of the entire charade being exposed (to even the most ardent supporter of UK parliamentary politics) is quite glorious.

 

[Brainaddict]

My impression, and I fully admit I can very well be wrong, my impression is that whilst working class generally are Labour voters, it was more the working class that also voted to Leave, whilst the better off/wellto do voted Remain, hence why the Remain camp so often seem to say the Leavers needs education.

There is truth to this but it's possible to exaggerate the effect. The working class was also split on Brexit. Of those earning below £20,000 58% voted Leave. That is higher than the average for the population, but it's still a hell of a lot of low income people who voted Remain.

 

[William of Walworth]

I dunno I'm really quite enjoying it all.

I doubt that you, or almost anyone posting here, is representative more generally about that!!
Boredom about the whole shabang is surely much more widespread in the "real world".
Would be worth asking, too, whether "anger" about Brexit "not being got on with" is as much to do with boredom with Brexit as actual Leave commitment ????

On the other hand the whole shit show is causing chaos in my industry putting my job at risk which is a bit of a downer, the sight however, of the entire charade being exposed (to even the most ardent supporter of UK parliamentary politics) is quite glorious.

Shit and fun at the same time??

 

[William of Walworth]

One thing surely absent from most of 'their' thinking/awareness, establishment remainers AND leavers, is the "Brexit is fucking tedious!" factor.
"Just get on with it" or "Just get rid of it" -- these are statements of the bored -- both sides -- and I think that's much understimated.

au contraire, the tedium is at the core of the strategy, as making people bored of it is the way they intend to reduce disorder to a minimum when the walking back the actual exit goes through.

Got to be a four-pint conundrum, that point

<goes out >

 

[Mr Moose]

au contraire, the tedium is at the core of the strategy, as making people bored of it is the way they intend to reduce disorder to a minimum when the walking back the actual exit goes through.

People won’t get bored if they believe it is relevant to their lives.

 

[Teaboy]

Shit and fun at the same time??

Seems to be how my life works.

 

[Supine]

So the brexit party are intolerant of all intollerences apparently

 

[Pickman's model]

People won’t get bored if they believe it is relevant to their lives.

you think people will continue to pay attention over the next 10-15 years it will take to work it all out?

 

[newbie]

Anger from who? There are plenty that are angry now (and have been for some time) hence the victory for Leave.

well, the 52% who voted Leave, the 80+% who voted for parties that promised to implement Leave. All of whom have been cheated by the politicians.

 

[Mr Moose]

you think people will continue to pay attention over the next 10-15 years it will take to work it all out?

Yes, but largely no. It took a massive boiling of collective piss to get it over the line, but the baseline of how important the EU question has been to most people prior to this was low.

 

[Teaboy]

well, the 52% who voted leave, the 80+% who voted for parties that promised to implement Leave. All of whom have been cheated by the politicians.

The 80+% stat you quote is a bit misleading though. I don't think that the large election was really fought on Brexit despite May's best efforts. Certainly not to an extent that you could say people who voted for Labour or the tories wanted the UK to leave the EU.

 

[butchersapron]

The 80+% stat you quote is a bit misleading though. I don't think that the large election was really fought on Brexit despite May's best efforts. Certainly not to an extent that you could say people who voted for Labour or the tories wanted the UK to leave the EU.

No one wanted it really, or even voted for it. I mean, who would.

 

[Teaboy]

No one wanted it really, or even voted for it. I mean, who would.

I think some did and some didn't. I'd have to go back and check though.

The question was how much Brexit alone influenced voting at the last GE.

 

[butchersapron]

I think some did and some didn't. I'd have to go back and check though.

The question was how much Brexit alone influenced voting at the last GE.

Which has became a way to suggest that no one really wanted to leave the eu or that there was no way of knowing if they wanted to. The quiet gnawing away of the mice. You didn't do that, so sorry, but it's standard now isn't it?

 

[newbie]

The 80+% stat you quote is a bit misleading though. I don't think that the large election was really fought on Brexit despite May's best efforts. Certainly not to an extent that you could say people who voted for Labour or the tories wanted the UK to leave the EU.

No? That strikes me as the same sort of revisionism as my local MP, Umunna, saying his values haven't changed, the Labour Party has changed round him. Which is nonsense, of course.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think some did and some didn't. I'd have to go back and check though.

The question was how much Brexit alone influenced voting at the last GE.

The only real inference you can make from the 2017 election is that there wasn't such an upswell of opposition to brexit at that time that people would vote on that issue alone otherwise the libdums would have done better.

 

[newbie]

The 80+% stat you quote is a bit misleading though. I don't think that the large election was really fought on Brexit despite May's best efforts.

At least south of the border, it was not contentious that the ref result should be implemented.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

At least south of the border, it was not contentious that the ref result should be implemented.

Of course there was still very little idea what implementing the result actually meant. And here we are two years later and none the wiser...

 

[butchersapron]

*gnaws*

 

[Teaboy]

No? That strikes me as the same sort of revisionism as my local MP, Umunna, saying his values haven't changed, the Labour Party has changed round him. Which is nonsense, of course.

View attachment 167435

Its not revisionism at all. Its simply arguing that the results at the general election in 2017 are a poor indicator of views on Brexit. The referendum we had on the thing is probably a better indicator.

Not that it matters much but my own views on the subject have changed a fair bit. I voted remain solely because I was worried about the inevitable shit show. Having found myself quite enjoying the shit show I'm hoping opportunities may come out of it (though not holding my breath). I'm now at the stage to believe that some sort of managed no deal would be the best outcome.

 

[newbie]

Of course there was still very little idea what implementing the result actually meant. And here we are two years later and none the wiser...

There's currently reasonable clarity about what the EU is prepared to accept and much less opacity about all the vague claims made in 2016.

 

[newbie]

Its simply arguing that the results at the general election in 2017 are a poor indicator of views on Brexit. The referendum we had on the thing is probably a better indicator.

Clearly it is a better indicator. If the election had been a credible argument about implementing the result then ... but whatiffery isn't going anywhere, the simple facts are that neither major party challenged the result, they presented as their intention to implement it. They've not done so.

To be a little overdramatic, the political class has ridden roughshod over the will of the people.