Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Mr Moose]

Me? I was a special needs teacher. Off long term sick and shortly to be looking for something else.

Hope you find it.

 

[William of Walworth]

<posting going haywire -- deleted>

 

[butchersapron]

All remain voters are middle class.

Thought someone better say it.

 

[chilango]

I think butchersapron recommended this somewhere but this book is well worth a quick read on all this stuff.

 

[Sprocket.]

he rants on the internet

It must be gratifying having our hobby as a job.

 

[kabbes]

I’m a care worker. What about you?

I’m not trying to be holier than thou about city types. I’m just chatting. But what they believe about themselves isn’t especially important for how the thing works.

Who said anything about what people believe about themselves?

Is it impossible for care workers to be believers in capitalism? If so, how? If not, why not?

 

[Mr Moose]

We wouldn't want the collapse of the US or RED CHINA or anything. Another words for collapse is change to establish for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service.

But i've just remembered that you're of those anti-corbynites i've heard about.

Thanks. I have been missing the rigour of student politics.

 

[butchersapron]

Thanks. I have been missing the rigour of student politics.

Yes, the very idea of changing things from this shitness is a bit mad.

 

[Mr Moose]

Who said anything about what people believe about themselves?

Is it impossible for care workers to be believers in capitalism? If so, how? If not, why not?

What exactly was your point (other than displaying the width of your network) and what was it you think I was saying?

 

[Mr Moose]

Yes, the very idea of changing things from this shitness is a bit mad.

Yes I would like it to say exactly the same, well done.

 

[butchersapron]

Thanks. I have been missing the rigour of student politics.

You're the extremist nutter shouting defend the US, defend the USSR, defend, the EU, defend Red China, change nothing btw. An inverted coin of student idiot from your memory saying er...defend the USSR, change nothing.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes I would like it to say exactly the same, well done.

You must be middle class then.

Do you really never follow your own logic? Keep track of what you post?

 

[kabbes]

What exactly was your point (other than displaying the width of your network) and what was it you think I was saying?

My point — made over a number of posts in aggregate, not just that one in isolation — was that the reasons for attitudes even in the City are more complex than simply a monolithic view of “whatever gives the largest profit is what we want to happen”.

 

[Mr Moose]

You're the extremist nutter shouting defend the US, defend the USSR, defend, the EU, defend Red China, change nothing btw. An inverted coin of student idiot from your memory saying er...defend the USSR, change nothing.

I’m not saying anything of the sort. I’m saying a white awakening does none of the above, tightens the grip in the end. I could say the same about vague attempts to disrupt the system whose consequences can’t be predicted.

 

[kabbes]

I’m studying psychology and eventually hope to go into something in mental health services. When I do, I will be allowed to have different views on politics and its shadow, but until that time I’m only allowed to believe that capitalism is good.

What is this nonsense?

 

[Mr Moose]

You must be middle class then.

Do you really never follow your own logic? Keep track of what you post?

I was being sarcastic.

 

[Mr Moose]

I’m studying psychology and eventually hope to go into something in mental health services. When I do, I will be allowed to have different views on politics and its shadow, but until that time I’m only allowed to believe that capitalism is good.

What is this nonsense?

Maybe you know what this means, but it’s not an answer to the question I asked you.

 

[butchersapron]

My point — made over a number of posts in aggregate, not just that one in isolation — was that the reasons for attitudes even in the City are more complex than simply a monolithic view of “whatever gives the largest profit is what we want to happen”.

There's a point here that marxists often make about politics being the legimating function for total capital to carry on - sometimes against individual capitals or sectors of capital. That is in the glorious process of breaking down. That might be a bit studenty though. The idea that society is just rich people trying to stay rich is much more complex and nuanced.

 

[William of Walworth]

Apologies for responding to much earlier posts, I've been out ...

If a second ref ever happens, their thing (in a token way anyway) will be to "reform the EU from within". Any actual strategist or half way good pollster on the Remain side would have to have the sense, after last time, to want to come over as a 'critical friend' or whatever, rather than just worshippers.

Surely you're not forgetting Cameron's "deal"?

I've added inverted commas for you
Yes, I do remember, but your mention of it just illustrates how useless and complacent Cameron and the Remain campaign were in 2016, plus also how unaware they were of how likely those shat upon by austerity/exploitation/low pay etc were to give the establishment a big kick.
(Not that many on here were predicting a Leave win at the time as I recall?)

My post that you quote -- its broader point is only about how any Remain campaign in any future election or referendum will have to be 1000 times more savvy and clued up than last time, really learning from its mistakes. React as cynically as you like to any prospects of that because I don't expect Remain clued-upness either.

 

[Mr Moose]

My point — made over a number of posts in aggregate, not just that one in isolation — was that the reasons for attitudes even in the City are more complex than simply a monolithic view of “whatever gives the largest profit is what we want to happen”.

And my point is that’s ultimately a bit of a delusion and a nice one for the best off (plenty of others I know) to afford.

 

[William of Walworth]

Don't expect anything much.. No-one really wants to reform the EU, but they might? dream up some half-convincing way of pretending to, in a campaign. And would have to, to have much chance, IMO.

They won't because, to be honest, they don't need to. They can't either

Agreeing with "can't" I think. They may well try, but not succeed.

But would they really be so complacent as to just rely on bigger young-voter turnout and all that? Kellner's argued at YouGov that remain could well win just because of differential turnout, and without a single former leave voter switching to remain.

I think that's stupidly complacent if they don't come up with any better strategy than that.

 

[kabbes]

And my point is that’s ultimately a bit of a delusion and a nice one for the best off (plenty of others I know) to afford.

You disagree that the City is formed of multiple perspectives that aren’t all formed around pure profit motive? What is it, a monothought clique?

 

[kabbes]

Maybe you know what this means, but it’s not an answer to the question I asked you.

Well, your responses and questions had nothing to do with anything I’d asserted, so that’s just how it goes.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I think that's stupidly complacent if they don't come up with any better strategy than that.

'They' have come up with a better strategy - remain in stages. If a vote is called it will only be done so once franking their decision is the only option.

 

[butchersapron]

Agreeing with "can't" I think. They may well try, but not succeed.

But would they really be so complacent as to just rely on bigger young-voter turnout and all that? Kellner's argued at YouGov that remain could well win just because of differential turnout, and without a single former leave voter switching to remain.

I think that's stupidly complacent if they don't come up with any better strategy than that.

What if they have no other perspective than that though? Surely if there was it would have come through in some way over the last few years? It hasn't though has it?

 

[William of Walworth]

What is it, a monothought clique?

I wish I'd copyrighted that phrase when I invented it, back in about 2002/03 or so

Royalties could come to a handsome total by now

 

[Mr Moose]

You disagree that the City is formed of multiple perspectives that aren’t all formed around pure profit motive? What is it, a monothought clique?

The system is much bigger than what they think. It can also accommodate radicalism and turn a dime from it.

 

[butchersapron]

1812 war isn't it. Lose every battle but win the war. Defend the US

 

[SpineyNorman]

What's all this white awakening shite about?

 

[butchersapron]

What's all this white awakening shite about?

Shut it gammon.