Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Pickman's model]

Ooh my head. I awake this morning feeling a bit sad at the polarisation. I am going to duck out of arguing for a bit.

I hope you change your mind

 

[Pickman's model]

Why not? Best time to kill the fuckers.

They might both turn on you

 

[brogdale]

Would be carnage.

Turnout sub Blair nadir level?

 

[chilango]

Turnout sub Blair nadir level?

Who knows?

I think it could be very unpredictable

 

[Pickman's model]

Turnout sub Blair nadir level?

Blair Nadir lined up to play John Bercow in brexit the movie

 

[Supine]

How does that work then? They had their chance and fucked it, now they have to wait another year. Perhaps they plan to bully the fuck out of her until she resigns.

They can ask her to step down. Party comes first so she is supposed to say yes. Maybot could go rogue though if she feels compelled to run us over the cliff edge.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Would Labour actually win, even given the scale of the last few years' clusterfuck?

 

[brogdale]

Who knows?

I think it could be very unpredictable

Just thinking about all the Brexity vox pops saying they'll never vote for any politicians ever again etc.

 

[Sprocket.]

Just thinking about all the Brexity vox pops saying they'll never vote for any politicians ever again etc.

The turnout would be interesting.

 

[chilango]

Would Labour actually win, even given the scale of the last few years' clusterfuck?

Nope.

Can't see it.

Here - one of the seats they won unexpectedly - there's been absolute silence. The activists I know are comply sucked into People's Vote and hostile to Corbyn as a result. The Labour council has continued cutting and selling everything off to speculators.

It's a heady mix of volatility and apathy.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just thinking about all the Brexity vox pops saying they'll never vote for any politicians ever again etc.

How pleased farage must have been till he heard that

 

[newbie]

The turnout would be interesting.

Indeed, but this petition is highlighting the problem for Labour. 7 of the top 10 constituencies by signature are Labour held. All have been signed by between a quarter and a third of eligible voters. Meanwhile 8 of the lowest 10, signed by just 2 or 3%, are also Labour held. While most Labour seats are at one or other end of the list the middle ground, say 7-12%, is where the tories are concentrated. In many cases that's enough to threaten their GE majority, but it doesn't expose anything like the scale of division that Corbyn has to try to hold together. In the event of a snap single issue GE with much the same candidates (no time for deselection) it's unclear which party would be most likely to see their vote implode.

 

[planetgeli]

Yes many Tories are in favour of restrictions on unions, in favour of privatisation but not because they want to hurt people but because they think that such policies are beneficial to the country as a whole.

Heidi Allen is a good example, her tears for camera might have been hammed up a little but she (like the vast majority of MPs) was/is no doubt deeply affected by the poverty she saw - despite voting (like MPs from many parties) for the very policies the have increased poverty. The senior management team (many Labour supporters) at my institution have just made a load of redundancies, I absolutely believe them when they say that they didn't want to make these redundancies, that they feel the people they are making redundant. But like Allen despite that feeling they have still implemented policies that damage people. In both cases arguments for the greater good, there being no other choice, that it's in the national/institutional interest would be invoked, and with a genuine belief.

Now none of this means that either the Allen or the bosses at my institution aren't wrong, they absolutely are. Nor do I feel much/any sympathy for them, I reserve that for the people they are attacking. My politics is opposed to theirs and they are the class/political enemy. But they are a class/political enemy because their interests are opposed to mine and my comrades interests not because we wear white shirts and they wear black.

Yes the Conservative party have enacted a series of policies that have increased poverty in this country, but so have Labour so have the LDs, both these parties have supported policies that have partly privatised the NHS, the education system, etc, both these parties have attacked the welfare state. Labour were in power for 12 years and did nothing to roll back trade union legislation, the liberal democrats are certainly no friends to the unions. Does that mean MPs in those parties are "just in it for the money" too? At this very moment Tory, Labour LD, green, SNP, etc councillors are attacking unions and workers are they all just in it for the money?

They are in it for the capitalism, because they believe in capitalism. And part of that belief is that stratification and inequality is desirable. So yes, I do believe that to a large extent they do revel in redundancies and poverty and I can’t believe any twat who has made people redundant goes home particularly crying about it at night.

It’s in their belief system to fuck us over.

 

[mauvais]

Both things can be simultaneously true.

 

[Supine]

A GE would be crazy. Both parties would probably stand on a leave manifesto so remainers wouldn't get closure whoever won.

I think the tories would win so it'd be interesting to see who they'd nominate to run. Not that there are any good options.

 

[TopCat]

The Tories may split next week. All bets are off.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Would Labour actually win, even given the scale of the last few years' clusterfuck?

All depends on the campaign really, and the manifesto. They made up huge ground last time.

 

[chilango]

There'll be no winners.

 

[SpackleFrog]

There'll be no winners.

Ahhhh c'mon. If there's an election - which there won't be any time soon if they can help it - the Tories will be out and that's good.

 

[Pickman's model]

There'll be no winners.

 

[butchersapron]

I have no idea which thread to put this on now and realise it will be of minor interest - but i've gone with this one as it seems the one with the more lefty/etc posters on it, but why were LMHR/SUTR both marching in support of the call to revoke/re-vote yesterday when their controlling parent body - the SWP - called v. loudly and v. publicly for a leave vote?

 

[Pickman's model]

I have no idea which thread to put this on now and realise it will be of minor interest - but i've gone with this one as it seems the one with the more lefty/etc posters on it, but why were LMHR/SUTR both marching in support of the call to revoke/re-vote yesterday when their controlling parent body - the SWP - called v. loudly and v. publicly for a leave vote?

They follow the money

They are otherwise utterly unprincipled

 

[butchersapron]

Oh, i know why they were doing this really, but such a naked display of utter hypocrisy will surely do them no favours. Anyway, just wanted to make sure the fact that this happened is noted.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I have no idea which thread to put this on now and realise it will be of minor interest - but i've gone with this one as it seems the one with the more lefty/etc posters on it, but why were LMHR/SUTR both marching in support of the call to revoke/re-vote yesterday when their controlling parent body - the SWP - called v. loudly and v. publicly for a leave vote?

Well, not that loudly. And they've been on lots of anti Brexit demo's pushing their cutting edge 'racism is bad' analysis - they'll go wherever they think they might get a hearing.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Everyone's pulling together to campaign for what they personally want.

 

[butchersapron]

Well, not that loudly. And they've been on lots of anti Brexit demo's pushing their cutting edge 'racism is bad' analysis - they'll go wherever they think they might get a hearing.

Their publications have been arguing very vociferously and very clearly for leaving since day one though. Turning up to talk to people on the off chance you'll get a contact address if v diff from forking out for a float banners and placards in support of a position expressly against that of the party though. I know they'll argue that this groups have autonomy and that this proves it but none of us are wet enough behind the ears to buy that. Anyway, don't want to treelover the thread, so...

 

[SpackleFrog]

Their publications have been arguing very vociferously and very clearly for leaving since day one though. Turning up to talk to people on the off chance you'll get a contact address if v diff from forking out for a float banners and and placards in support of a position expressly against that of the party though. I know they'll argue that this groups have autonomy and that this proves it but none of us are wet enough behind the ears to buy that. Anyway, don't want to treelover the thread, so...

True but they always tend to put forward their 'real' ideas in print and I would think most of their members voted Remain.

 

[butchersapron]

Actually, i may have made a rather embarrassing mistake. I saw pics of the march on this collection and it doesn't make clear where the pics change from yesterday to last weekends SUTR thing (it does if you click on them, the change appears to be after the 'build unions not borders' one). Damn.

 

[chilango]

I think the LMHR/SUTR/"softer"SWP types are just as prone as everyone else to getting sucked into the headless chickenery of panicked "People's Vote" to stop the apocalypse nonsense.

We seen it in here.

We've seen irl too.

The fact that the PV stuff is familiar and comfortable in form no doubt aids this.

 

[chilango]

Actually, i may have made a rather embarrassing mistake. I saw pics of the march on this collection and it doesn't make clear where the pics change from yesterday to last weekends SUTR thing. Damn.

The fact that we all believe it without a second thought is telling enough though.