Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[kebabking]

Clearly they are.

not really - Greece would continue to be subject to the EU's whims regardless of whether the UK was or was not a member, so voting one way or t'other has absolutely no impact whatsoever on Greece.

 

[Jeremiah18.17]

Star Fraction style Balkanisation edges closer.

 

[Santino]

not really - Greece would continue to be subject to the EU's whims regardless of whether the UK was or was not a member, so voting one way or t'other has absolutely no impact whatsoever on Greece.

I'm all right Jack.

 

[Santino]

How?

You were asked whether you wanted to remain a member of a supranational entity that, as a matter of policy, punishes the poorest of its inhabitants for the failures of a capitalist economy, with a view to further enriching already wealthy elites, and you answered 'yes'.

 

[kebabking]

I'm all right Jack.

?

send code key again, over...

 

[Poi E]

Star Fraction style Balkanisation edges closer.

Balkan comparisons are not helpful. The peoples of former Yugoslavia had a history of internecine animosity, forcible union, venal politicians exploiting national differences for political gain etc.

 

[BemusedbyLife]

I'm all right Jack.

That's a idiotic answer, by any reasonable definition the poorest members of society in the UK are far richer than the population of sub Saharan Africa, by the logic you have just espoused you could justify cutting state benefits by 75% and send the money saved overseas as foreign aid. Do you think that's a good idea?

 

[Silas Loom]

Anyone who takes the Santino line needs to explain what it is about the EU institutions we are leaving, and Greece, that they object to. If they don't distinguish on Greek debt and sustainability between IMF (very hawkish), ESM (less hawkish), ECB (self-serving), and if they don't say what specific things they wanted the European Parliament, Commission or Council to have done differently, they haven't contributed anything more meaningful than any other kind of hand-waving Brexiteer.

Greece is a reasonable argument against joining the Euro. Not enough of one, in my view.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm all right Jack.

No, that's not what was meant at all. Explain how brexit helps Greece.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

That's a idiotic answer, by any reasonable definition the poorest members of society in the UK are far richer than the population of sub Saharan Africa, by the logic you have just espoused you could justify cutting state benefits by 75% and send the money saved overseas as foreign aid. Do you think that's a good idea?

What sort of cunt espouses taking the money from the poorest in the UK? Take it from the richest, dur.

 

[BemusedbyLife]

I'm all right Jack.

What sort of cunt espouses taking the money from the poorest in the UK? Take it from the richest, dur.

I'm not I think it's a fucking awful idea but I'm illustrating the point that the average person in this country can't be expected to accept responsibility for the worlds problems

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Given that Greece is a large net recipient from the EU, if anything the 'I'm alright Jack' argument applies to those brexit people who moan about the UK's net contribution, which they want to take away.

 

[DotCommunist]

and its the brexiteers who are parochial r/wingers lol

average person in this country can't be expected to accept responsibility for the worlds problems

 

[kabbes]

I'm not I think it's a fucking awful idea but I'm illustrating the point that the average person in this country can't be expected to accept responsibility for the worlds problems

But somebody in Kent who wants out of the EU should be expected to take responsibility for the difficulties in establishing a border in Northern Ireland?

 

[BemusedbyLife]

and its the brexiteers who are parochial r/wingers lol

Wanting to help others is noble in the extreme but are you trying to tell me that EVERY decision you make in your life, you stop and think about the good of all mankind first?

 

[BemusedbyLife]

But somebody in Kent who wants out of the EU should be expected to take responsibility for the difficulties in establishing a border in Northern Ireland?

Nope the Government should that's their job (and they're absolute shit at it)

 

[flypanam]

I'm not I think it's a fucking awful idea but I'm illustrating the point that the average person in this country can't be expected to accept responsibility for the worlds problems

Only the Bankers' problems.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's almost as if a complex situation can't meaningfully be boiled down to a simple binary question on a ballot paper.

Do you want brexit? Yes please. And if it jeopardises peace in Ireland? Still yes? No, I want a brexit that doesn't jeopardise peace. Right, well, that ain't doable. Well find a way.

Switzerland was placed in a similar bind by one of its referendums. Do you want to end free movement of people from the EU? Yes please. So you want tariffs? Oh no. But that's what it means. It means tariffs. Well find a way.

Nasty anti-immigrant buttons are pushed to win these referendums, and we're left with these nasty messes as a result.

 

[BemusedbyLife]

Only the Bankers' problems.

We most certainly shouldn't accept any responsibility for the problems of the banks, my biggest beef with the bailout was not the money we spent but the fact that none of the fuckers faced any kind of prosecution afterwards.
What happened in Greece was a classic example of skewed values in the world, I don't think there was any malicious intent but obviously the banks getting their money back was prioritised over anything else.
But I don't accept that by voting Remain I was promoting that behavour anymore than someone voting Leave was voting for Irish reunification.

 

[Santino]

Wanting to help others is noble in the extreme but are you trying to tell me that EVERY decision you make in your life, you stop and think about the good of all mankind first?

Not every decision. But maybe, you know, voting on major political events. Maybe.

 

[Santino]

Anyone who takes the Santino line needs to explain what it is about the EU institutions we are leaving, and Greece, that they object to. If they don't distinguish on Greek debt and sustainability between IMF (very hawkish), ESM (less hawkish), ECB (self-serving), and if they don't say what specific things they wanted the European Parliament, Commission or Council to have done differently, they haven't contributed anything more meaningful than any other kind of hand-waving Brexiteer.

Greece is a reasonable argument against joining the Euro. Not enough of one, in my view.

What is it about the EU institutions we may be leaving, and Greece, that you don't object to?

 

[redsquirrel]

What is it about the EU institutions we may be leaving, and Greece, that you don't object to?

Wrong person to ask, he's in favour the politics that has seen inequality rise to the level of Victorian times, the transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich and the murders in Greece.

What's mad is supposed socialists thinking that this prick is in any way an ally.

 

[Santino]

That's a idiotic answer, by any reasonable definition the poorest members of society in the UK are far richer than the population of sub Saharan Africa, by the logic you have just espoused you could justify cutting state benefits by 75% and send the money saved overseas as foreign aid. Do you think that's a good idea?

Do you often find yourself using the arguments that, say, a conservative libertarian would use to argue against the principle of universal healthcare?

 

[Silas Loom]

What is it about the EU institutions we may be leaving, and Greece, that you don't object to?

EU funding for good, redistributive projects in Greece. Which we contribute to, as part of our responsibility to the EU polity.

Actually, there's nothing about the EU and Greece that I do object to. All the issues concern the Eurozone. Which is different, or at least it was until we decided to fuck that distinction up by leaving.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not I think it's a fucking awful idea but I'm illustrating the point that the average person in this country can't be expected to accept responsibility for the worlds problems

just to benefit from them, eh

 

[BemusedbyLife]

Not every decision. But maybe, you know, voting on major political events. Maybe.

So do I, I voted Remain because I believed (still do) that in both the short and long term it is in the best interests of the population of country of the UK, the EU and the world in general, I'm not saying the EU is perfect far from it.
But is the better of the two choices that were on offer and everything that has happened since has convinced me I was right and us leaving the EU will do more harm than good.

 

[Pickman's model]

there's nothing about the EU and Greece that I do object to

 

[Silas Loom]

But somebody in Kent who wants out of the EU should be expected to take responsibility for the difficulties in establishing a border in Northern Ireland?

If they vote in a referendum which has consequences then yes, surely they do assume some of the responsibility. If they vote for a politician who embezzles cash for his ducks, they have a certain degree of responsibility. Fortunately, in most cases, they can change their mind at the next election.

 

[BemusedbyLife]

just to benefit from them, eh

Of course I do and so do you willingly or otherwise

 

[Silas Loom]

Wrong person to ask, he's in favour the politics that has seen inequality rise to the level of Victorian times, the transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich and the murders in Greece.

What's mad is supposed socialists thinking that this prick is in any way an ally.

Out of interest, what political grouping do you believe me to be aligned with?