Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[butchersapron]

You seem remarkably able to separate our export trade from our domestic economy and the welfare of the average working person. How do you DO that?!

Note the number of ours in this. I was talking more of your sudden interest in this issue though - like your fleeting interest in labour party anti-semitism.

 

[Wookey]

You were predicting armageddon a few posts ago with the CBI as your witness. Now it's some whisky.

Link to where I predicted Armageddon please, or retract and make a payment to a charity of Editors choice, and we'll say no more about it.

 

[butchersapron]

You were predicting armageddon a few posts ago with the CBI as your witness. Now it's some whisky.

A few years ago he was calling the EU scum and supporting brexit. The main thing is to talk about wookey.

 

[DexterTCN]

Have you given up even trying to form sentences now?

Not at all..I'm pointing out all the car workers who are losing their jobs and all the foreign health workers who are leaving the country. Only two, we can carry on if you like.

See...remainers predicted this, the markets were right, the financiers were right, small businesses were right. I asked way earlier in this thread why factories whose primary market was the EU (or access to the EU) would stay here...the general answer was "it'll all be good" or "we're hurting capital" or "we're hurting europe" or worst "they'll stay".

I asked
Is Brexit actually going to happen?

and got sarcasm

You may like whatever...you may not like whatever...people were asking how you'd pay the bills. Bill-paying time is here and people are losing their jobs. Many thousands of them.

So if you don't like a brief response, have a longer one, you can respond to it instead of criticising the structure of it

 

[butchersapron]

Not at all..I'm pointing out all the car workers who are losing their jobs and all the foreign health workers who are leaving the country. Only two, we can carry on if you like.

See...remainers predicted this, the markets were right, the financiers were right, small businesses were right. I asked way earlier in this thread why factories whose primary market was the EU (or access to the EU) would stay here...the general answer was "it'll all be good" or "we're hurting capital" or "we're hurting europe" or worst "they'll stay".

I asked
Is Brexit actually going to happen?

and got sarcasm

You may like whatever...you may not like whatever...people were asking how you'd pay the bills. Bill-paying time is here and people are losing their jobs. Many thousands of them.

So if you don't like a brief response, have a longer one, you can respond to it instead of criticising the structure of it

Can you link to the longer reply please?

 

[Wookey]

Note the number of ours in this. I was talking more of your sudden interest in this issue though - like your fleeting interest in labour party anti-semitism.

That poor, lonely cargo ship is now half way across the world or thereabouts, and has no clue about the relationship it's mother country will have with the country it seeks to trade with by the time it gets there.

So rather than a sudden interest, just see it as a half-time comment. It's tied into what's happening in the world.

 

[DexterTCN]

On the other hand, are there regulations a future UK government might want to introduce, which the EU would prevent.

There isn't a Scottish nationalism movement is there? I'm aware of a Scottish independence one.

 

[SpineyNorman]

.

Link to where I predicted Armageddon please, or retract and make a payment to a charity of Editors choice, and we'll say no more about it.

Fuck off you pompous twat

There are ships that set off last week for the Far East with cargo to deliver, and they have no idea what our trading status is going to be by the time they arrive.

I took from this post that you were saying they had no idea if they'd be able to trade. If that's not what you meant fair enough but I'm not going to massage you weird little ego with an apology.

I'm not disputing that no deal would be a horror show. It just won't stop goods getting to their destination.

 

[newbie]

Investor-state dispute settlement. That's what membership has so far kept at bay. TTIP didn't happen because other Europeans fought hard against it although the British government pushed hard for it. The US is now demanding an ISDS process as part of any trade deal and personally I'm doubtful this or any other UK government will resist.

 

[Wookey]

The main thing is to talk about wookey.

You talk about me more than anyone else Butch! You've just responded to my point about cargo ships, with a reference to a thread about anti-Semitism and a link to something I said several years ago on another topic.

THAT is talking about me, rather than to me. And it certainly doesn't engage with my point that our international trade system is already creaking with no deal looming. But I can see why you don't want to engage that point meaningfully, and I suspect so do we all.

 

[Wolveryeti]

Yes but as I've said, if we have no hope for the future what is even the point

Fair enough, but looking at how swiftly the Coalition reversed so many of Labour's achievements, you should at least be able to understand why some might want a supranational check on rolling back some standards that have been achieved (or who might want a body proposing them in the first place). Stuff like ECHR or not pumping raw sewage onto beaches (UWWTD).

 

[butchersapron]

The EU wanted TTIP. There's a nasty little elision of europeans into the eu there newbie. Not on at all.

 

[Ranbay]

Can you link to the longer reply please?

 

[SpineyNorman]

WTO rules would MEAN shafting the UK. They are not good at all. No-one in the world trades solely on WTO rules, BECAUSE they are so shit.

I didn't say it would be good, just that it wouldn't stop it getting there. They'll quickly do deals similar to what they have with the EU in the far East simply because its in their governments interests to.

I don't think it will happen either.

 

[Dogsauce]

Yet the examples are there. The part-time worker rights are one of those examples. An EU directive that is enforced here and makes a measurable difference to millions of low-paid, mostly female workers. It's enforced here not because it is EU law. It's enforced here because it is UK law, brought in due to an EU directive, and the UK is a country that tends to enforce laws like that. Post-brexit, any UK law like that one can be changed by the UK government. And this is the tories we're talking about here. Of course they could do it.

Sorry, a bit behind on this thread, but didn’t the tories opt out (or intend to opt out) of the EU ‘Social Chapter’, so it wouldn’t have been something the EU could enforce, still required national government to enact? Blair getting in is what gave us those rights I think, although EU putting them forward. At the time I was doing long term agency work so benefitted from it significantly after years of never going on holiday (used to do that thing of quitting a job to go away for a couple of weeks then get a new one when I came back, once took a while getting back into work which was shit because no dole).

(Would I be right to say that the EU was a bit more social democratic at the time? How much has this changed or were the hardcore free marketeers always there?)

 

[SpineyNorman]

Link to where I predicted Armageddon please, or retract and make a payment to a charity of Editors choice, and we'll say no more about it.

Fuck off you pompous twat

 

[newbie]

The EU wanted TTIP. There's a nasty little elision of europeans into the eu there newbie. Not on at all.

Which bit do you mean when you say 'EU'? I said Europeans meaning a wide selection of civil society who organised through their political processes. Did you just mean some technocrats whose power was challenged and defeated?

 

[butchersapron]

Which bit do you mean when you say 'EU'? I said Europeans meaning a wide selection of civil society who organised through their political processes. Did you just mean some technocrats whose power was challenged and defeated?

i mean the EU. You tied opposition and death of TTIP to membership of the EU. That was literally your point.

(Your their is a little like wookey's ours btw)

 

[DexterTCN]

Fuck off you pompous twat

um...are you ok?

 

[newbie]

i mean the EU. You tied opposition and death of TTIP to membership of the EU. That was literally your point.

(Your their is a little like wookey's ours btw)

So what's your view on ISDS in the post Brexit future?

 

[butchersapron]

So what's your view on ISDS in the post Brexit future?

Don't come in with that, fuck it up and go out with that. You needed to get it right on such an important issue

 

[newbie]

Don't come in with that, fuck it up and go out with that. You needed to get it right on such an important issue

What? It's a straight question, don't duck it.

 

[SpineyNorman]

um...are you ok?

You know what? I'm not sure the concern you appear to be showing me here is entirely genuine.

 

[Wookey]

. It just won't stop goods getting to their destination.

I don't know that. I know they used to be guaranteed their delivery, and now they're not, and that's no way to run a business.

 

[butchersapron]

What? It's a straight question, don't duck it.

Hang on, you come in saying that membership of the eu protected us against something that the eu fought tooth and nail to promote and it doesn't give you a seconds pause of thought about what you're saying? Righto.

Duck it - what's to duck? I reckon i am against that. Happy?

 

[DexterTCN]

You know what? I'm not sure the concern you appear to be showing me here is entirely genuine.

Oh I get that all the time on urban

I wasn't being a prick though, you posted the same thing twice...just thought you might not be ok was all.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I don't know that. I know they used to be guaranteed their delivery, and now they're not, and that's no way to run a business.

Who can or cannot guarantee their delivery to or from where? Do you understand how shipping contracts work? It's pre established who pays what at what end, that's what the incoterms are all about.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Oh I get that all the time on urban

I wasn't being a prick though, you posted the same thing twice...just thought you might not be ok was all.

Ah I see, my phone died when I sent the first one so didn't think it had worked but couldn't be arsed to type it all out again. Worth saying twice anyway imo

 

[newbie]

Hang on, you come in saying that membership of the eu protected us against something that the eu fought tooth and nail to promote and it doesn't give you a seconds pause of thought about what you're saying? Righto.

Duck it - what's to duck? I reckon i am against that. Happy?

You're against the imposition of ISDS? Good, so am I. Do you think there's much likelihood it won't be part of a future UK US trade deal?

 

[Wookey]

Who can or cannot guarantee their delivery to or from where? Do you understand how shipping contracts work? It's pre established who pays what at what end, that's what the incoterms are all about.

It's usually pre-established. Until no deal Brexit comes along and cancels your trade agreements with Japan, for example. Then you don't know what tariffs and process fees could be applied, and what that means for the businesses sending goods on the ships.