Is Brexit actually going to happen?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
mauvais
on reddit or something
Two things to unpack here, this post in context and then the bit about what I believe.
You haven't really answered the question which was what constitutes 'bad'. Yeah OK if you add the word deal then we're led towards framing a discussion in parliamentary/capitalist terms, but we can both choose to not do that. The process still happens. You and everyone else are still subject to the outcome, whatever it turns out to be. So what would be an unacceptable outcome of Brexit? The easy way out of that question is to move the deadline to the right, perhaps infinitely, but let's deny that luxury. Can there exist a point at which we assess e.g. 20 years post-Brexit and see that your aspirations have not been met, and e.g. British working conditions have materially worsened, and you can say yeah OK this is actually a failure, we (the big WC we) done fucked up? The criteria for that are what I'm really interested in. Because the criteria for me as a skeptic being wrong are relatively clear.
Then there's what I believe, which you characterise as rooted in PP or technocracy and although I might be more inclined towards outcomes from this in some of our discussions, objection one, I wouldn't say I have a lot of confidence in any form of parliament other than as mild differentiation from another, and objection two, I think you paint me as wildly more optimistic than I am. Perhaps I don't think anything will significantly improve within my lifetime, whether that's a failure of parliament or the working class or whatever else. I do think there is plenty of potential to make it worse.
mauvais
on reddit or something
Ah come on, you might not agree with the guy, but it's not that difficult to sympathise with commonality, access rights and membership forming part of identity. I can't be arsed to do any more of other people's legwork as I've got enough of my own to trouble me, but it's not exactly an objectively unreasonable reaction.
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
well he still be a citizen of Britain
and have a unelected house of representative making discussion I.E the house of lords
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
You could answer what you think, or they could answer what they think. It’s a reasonable question. Not sure why it’s troubling you, but if you’ve got an opinion and you want to give it: this is a discussion board.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
TheHoodedClaw
acknowledging ur soup leg
My legal citizenship will, certainly.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
It's a difficult subject as generally speaking working class solidarity ( and frankly i don't care if I've used that word wrong) between migrants and locals is absolutely defined in those terms- my mum and every other working class person I know that voted remain did so primarly cause of the racism whilst the rest of my family and myself voted leave, my mum is a carer like me so obvs works with lots of eastern europeans. The tendency to define internationalism in those terms is so pervasive now that those engaged in the vital work of BUILDING SOLIDARITY need to accept that such language isn't a reliable indicator of yer social class, or how much "skin in the game" we have and and so on and so on.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Total digression from what you said right? It's just something that's bugging me about this whole debate. Identity gets boring in about 2 seconds anyway haha
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Indeed. You, and I, and presumably Supine , will lose EU citizenship.
mauvais
on reddit or something
Meanwhile in the world of procedural shit, May has ruled out Corbyn's proposal, managing to do so with the leadership style of a passive aggressive village fete organiser:
What's the motive for this?
<fucked up, shit eating grin-backed pause>
... some innovative cheese deals!
So now in bizarro world it's Jeremy Corbyn who is the friend of business and err Lockheed Martin. What absolute times.
I didn't think there was anything that the woman hadn't [optional 'always'] been very clear about, but there we have it.
What's the motive for this?
Phew. We could have lost out on...
<fucked up, shit eating grin-backed pause>
... some innovative cheese deals!
So now in bizarro world it's Jeremy Corbyn who is the friend of business and err Lockheed Martin. What absolute times.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
what's it called when it's like a recession only much, much worse?More fear project than project fear...
View attachment 161565
Looking like we might be needing a 'UK Recession 2019' thread soon.
the may catastrophe perhaps
CRI
Registered Chooser
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
the may catastrophe perhaps[/QUOTE]
I think the term used was sunlight uplands
I think the term used was sunlight uplands
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
i saw one of her films once[/QUOTE]
Are you sure you're not confusing her with Stormy Fundamentals?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Are you sure you're not confusing her with Stormy Fundamentals?[/QUOTE]
yes i'm sure i'm not. stormy fundamentals did a series of challenging feminist documentaries while sunlight uplands was much more of a b movie actress, whose early career promised much more than it ever delivered.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
CRI
Registered Chooser
I think the term used was sunlight uplands[/QUOTE]
That sounds about right for the way we're headed, as in . . .
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Is this what passes for analysis these days?
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
More like 16 years.
Sixteen years
Sixteen banners united over the field
Where the good shepherd grieves
Desperate men, desperate women divided
Spreading their wings 'neath the falling leaves
Fortune calls
I stepped forth from the shadows to the marketplace
Merchants and thieves, hungry for power, my last deal gone down
She's smelling sweet like the meadows where she was born
On midsummer's eve, near the tower
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
he is a massive twat who crayons all over threads with stuff they don't understand?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Sunlit uplands. From a churchill speech. You know how the tories love that old monster
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
So, May has 'rejected' Corbyn's proposal, not surprisingly, but is talking about 'common ground'. For Example:
Brexit: May has ruled out Corbyn's customs union plan – minister
So, where does that leave us? She's hoping to get a version of 'her' deal through, with a sprinkling of fake workers/environmental protection, to get enough Labour MPs onboard to displace the ultra-swivelists who will vote against? Not sure how that fits in the timetable, possible extensions and the rest, but is that her strategy now?
Brexit: May has ruled out Corbyn's customs union plan – minister
So, where does that leave us? She's hoping to get a version of 'her' deal through, with a sprinkling of fake workers/environmental protection, to get enough Labour MPs onboard to displace the ultra-swivelists who will vote against? Not sure how that fits in the timetable, possible extensions and the rest, but is that her strategy now?
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I think so. But fuck knows.
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