Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[kebabking]

But sky falling in really means things like job losses, loss of FOM, opening NHS to further competition, more expensive goods. A brolly wouldn't help with those kind of problems.

You need a new definition of 'sky falling in' - what you've described is a fairly standard, and not particularly bad, reccession with a Tory government in power - or a new Labour government in power.

Not quite the Fall of Rome, is it?

 

[Supine]

You need a new definition of 'sky falling in' - what you've described is a fairly standard, and not particularly bad, reccession with a Tory government in power - or a new Labour government in power.

Not quite the Fall of Rome, is it?

I don't know exactly how bad it would be and nor do you. You seem to be saying these things don't matter. Do you not have compassion for people who would be affected?

I also like being European which is difficult to quantify but for me is a massive loss.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Haggis

I actually tried vegetarian haggis today as part of an invented veggie fry up, it was really quite rank. I must concur, you do need the sheep's vital organs or else don't even bother.

 

[danny la rouge]

I also like being European which is difficult to quantify but for me is a massive loss.

You seem to be suggesting you’ll cease being European. How?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I don't know exactly how bad it would be and nor do you. You seem to be saying these things don't matter. Do you not have compassion for people who would be affected?

I also like being European which is difficult to quantify but for me is a massive loss.

You will still be European you utter tool. The UK is not being dragged away to the Caribbean. More's the pitty.

 

[DexterTCN]

You will still be European you utter tool...

Can Supine be deported then, like the other Europeans?

 

[Supine]

You will still be European you utter tool.

I'm offended by that. Why are people do rude these days.

There is a difference between being a member of the EU and living on a small island on one side of the EU having fun being isolationists.

 

[Supine]

Can Supine be deported then, like the other Europeans?

Probably

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'm offended by that. Why are people do rude these days.

There is a difference between being a member of the EU and living on a small island on one side of the EU having fun being isolationists.

You are offended by being European or by being labeled a tool for imagining that you will no longer be a European once the UK leaves a political union with some other European countries?

 

[brogdale]

I'm offended by that. Why are people do rude these days.

There is a difference between being a member of the EU and living on a small island on one side of the EU having fun being isolationists.

You're talking about citizenship of the supra-state?

 

[DexterTCN]

You are offended by being European or by being labeled a tool for imagining that you will no longer be a European once the UK leaves a political union with some other European countries?

Maybe Supine is one of the people who has to register and then apply to live in the UK.

There's an app for it.

 

[Supine]

You are offended by being European or by being labeled a tool for imagining that you will no longer be a European once the UK leaves a political union with some other European countries?

We all know I'm not talking about being European in a geographical way.

 

[brogdale]

We all know I'm not talking about being European in a geographical way.

It is a kind of geographical sort of thing, though.

 

[Supine]

It is a kind of geographical sort of thing, though.

Brexit? Nope.

 

[mauvais]

I have consistently said that I think we will leave with no deal. Which of course is unpredictable, but as paolo’s snidey digs fails to note, the world will keep turning. Audi will keep delivering parts, The City will keep doing whatever the fuck it is that it does. This is the UK, global home to neo-lib economics and its spawn, the EU. For those whose main concern is ‘the economy’, they are demonstrating a woeful lack of understanding as to how capital operates.

By default I would probably agree with you. However if you think that the overall self-interest of global capital lies in continuity and growth through BAU (and you can argue that it's not) then you also have to address the beshitted Brexit bed and capital's failure thus far to counter the disruption. Can't easily have it both ways.

Then there's the problem that this description is framed entirely in terms of capital and not in terms of either nation (if that's your bag) or people. Maybe that's fair if the initiator for this was the topic of automotive supply chains but, surprising as this may be, even I don't make my judgements on the merits of Brexit based on Bosch parts lead times.

TL;DR global capital will, like water, find a way, but that way may very well not be to the benefit of the UK nor random British Audi purchaser #sixtymillionandfour.

 

[Pickman's model]

Blah blah

C4U

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

C4U

Haaaa ha

 

[brogdale]

Brexit? Nope.

Being 'European' as opposed to holding supra-state citizenship; one is essentially a geographical descriptor of populations and the other a relationship between people and a polity.
tbh, I reckon the supra-state missed a trick with the UK popuation...I think they should have insisted that UK citizens had the right to retain supra-state citizenship whatever the state decided to do.

 

[danny la rouge]

We all know I'm not talking about being European in a geographical way.

In which ways will you cease being European, and in which ways will you continue to be European?

 

[Supine]

C4U

I don't know what that means but I also don't really give a toss

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

We all know I'm not talking about being European in a geographical way.

Aye you are talking about it in a"voting to leave the EU makes you a traitor to Europe" kinda way, because that kind of rank patriotism is really sexy when Verhofstadt and that come out with it.

 

[mauvais]

While I'm at it, this "european" debate is essentially one of identity and there's probably not a lot of value or dignity in arguing with someone that they're wrong about their own perceived identity.

I don't love the narrative that often develops from this idea, but you should probably wait for that to unfurl first.

 

[SpineyNorman]

There's a guy on here who posted something along the lines of 'if troops are put on the street they'll go back to their working class roots and overthrow the state'.

And a Scottish nationalist who cant tell when someone is taking the piss.

 

[Supine]

You can all pile on to me because I'm pro EU but I don't ever see any valid reasons on u75 for leaving. None with tangible benefits for UK citizens anyway.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

And a Scottish nationalist who cant tell when someone is taking the piss.

here due to ignored content I thought that was aimed at me

 

[redsquirrel]

I think you should both have a go at that yourselves.

And this, again, is where the real division is. Between those of us who believe in labour and those that don't.
I'm not particularly interested in "deals" stitched up by different factions of capital.

For you the key is getting the "right" party in power and then things will improve. I utterly reject that view. Not only do I not believe that remaining in the UK or having the Labour (or whatever) Party in power will not bring about the changes I want. I think the insistence to push the working class out of the equation is part of the problem. Now you might not agree with that view, fine, but to say that it's not been explained to you, that I and others haven't made a political argument (and one that is based on socialist politics) is simply false.

 

[danny la rouge]

While I'm at it, this "european" debate is essentially one of identity and there's probably not a lot of value or dignity in arguing with someone that they're wrong about their own perceived identity.

What I’m interested in is why someone who feels they’re European on 28th March thinks they won’t be on 30th. Will their culture, language, personal history, social group, and so on, have changed?

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't know what that means but I also don't really give a toss

You've been here more than 15 years and haven't figured out the common abbreviation for corrected for you

You're not the sharpest tool in the box

 

[DexterTCN]

Having to register then apply to stay in their homes would change.

 

[brogdale]

What I’m interested in is why someone who feels they’re European on 28th March thinks they won’t be on 30th. Will their culture, language, personal history, social group, and so on, have changed?

This was one of the reasons why Mrs B & myself have booked a short break to Belgium on the 27th March. We're intrigued about what Doctor Who like 'regeneration' will occur at 11pm (UK time) on the 29th. As a control we will travel with full EU citizenship, temporarily reside the supra-state heartland and then, suddenly...as the clock strikes...all will be different...or will it?
Who knows? Maybe we'll have to claim asylum?