Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[mojo pixy]

Well it’s impossible to prove that Cameron and a lot of other ‘Remainer’ Tories were secretly for a Brexit/--

Can I say I strongly disagree. Belief aside, what would it gain them to pretend to support remaining? fwiw I actually think this is one issue where from MPs uncharacteristically we're hearing truth, or hearing nothing.

As for pretending, it'd be more likely imo to pretend to support leaving, since that was the winning side?

I think you're being duped by hate for Tories, it's a fair motive but less useful than critical thinking in the long term.

 

[Ming]

Can I say I strongly disagree. Belief aside, what would it gain them to pretend to support remaining? fwiw I actually think this is one issue where from MPs uncharacteristically we're hearing truth, or hearing nothing.

As for pretending, it'd be more likely imo to pretend to support leaving, since that was the winning side?

I think you're being duped by hate for Tories, it's a fair motive but less useful than critical thinking in the long term.

It is a bit of a leap i admit . ‘Now lets drop the green crap’ though?? I’m in a really weird position now though because i’ll lose my bet if i’m wrong (and i don’t want to be wrong) and the pound’ll drop through the floor if i’m Right so that’ll screw me on money i’ve got in Britain i was hoping to bring to Canada. So i’m fucked both ways!

 

[Wilf]

The group is planning to take the argument further at a news conference on Tuesday, fronted by Labour MPs David Lammy and Bridget Phillipson with Liberal Democrat deputy leader Jo Swinson and Caroline Lucas, the Green party leader in Westminster.

Wonder which one of them will become the Remainiac Jan Pallach?

 

[butchersapron]

the Green party leader in Westminster.

 

[DotCommunist]

‘Now lets drop the green crap’ though?

a little greenwashing at that point was fairly transparent but have a look at this way, if they can wear the green rags when it suits do you not think that they can sell you the idea of the progressive EU enthusiastically? 'Lets drop all the workers rights crap, greece is ours now'. You smell the lie because it is one and they know it.

 

[butchersapron]

...and a weird oxbridger from the jim murphy school of just fuxk it up.

 

[two sheds]

Labour calls for vote in Commons on holding second referendum

Labour calls for vote on 2nd ref, constructive ambiguity over? How will this impact on their pro leave vote.

The party’s [i.e. Labour's] alternative Brexit plan, which would be the subject of a separate vote if the amendment were carried, proposes that the UK remain in a post-Brexit customs union with the European Union and have a strong relationship with the single market. Citizens’ rights and consumer standards would be harmonised with the EU’s.

Corbyn said: “Our amendment will allow MPs to vote on options to end this Brexit deadlock and prevent the chaos of a no-deal. It is time for Labour’s alternative plan to take centre stage, while keeping all options on the table, including the option of a public vote.”

That bit's interesting: would harmonize citizens' rights and consumer standards. You'd hope things like human rights and working hours and environmental standards, too. Might give a suitable start for negotiations with the EU?

I admit to not having followed all this too closely, but isn't customs union needed to solve Irish border problem? I can't see the EU agreeing to no customs posts if people are going to be able to import stuff into the UK and then just walk across the border to sell it on into the EU.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, john mann has sorted it all with this amendment. Why didn't anyone think of it before. There will be some problems mind.

 

[Ming]

a little greenwashing at that point was fairly transparent but have a look at this way, if they can wear the green rags when it suits do you not think that they can sell you the idea of the progressive EU enthusiastically? 'Lets drop all the workers rights crap, greece is ours now'. You smell the lie because it is one and they know it.

I don’t think it’s particularly progressive. I remember all the protests against the IMF, The World Bank and the WTO in the 90’s.I’m definitely confused now because if we crash out we’ll be fucked for years. And will this lead to political space for the left to blossom in Britain? I’m pessimistic. I’m also an internationalist. Don’t like nationalism or patriotism. So do i support the EU to stop economic catastrophe or get out to avoid membership of a new-liberal organisation? I’m a remainer because you can’t reform an organization you’re not a member off.

 

[butchersapron]

Of course you can. You keep saying this. It's not true. Sometimes you can only reform it by leaving. He'll change though eh.

 

[two sheds]

I’m a remainer because you can’t reform an organization you’re not a member off.

I've only started with the link butchers posted but the first section answers that
Against Law-sterity | Salvage

if you're a member you have to abide by their rules: they have control.

 

[DotCommunist]

I don’t think it’s particularly progressive. I remember all the protests against the IMF, The World Bank and the WTO in the 90’s.I’m definitely confused now because if we crash out we’ll be fucked for years. And will this lead to political space for the left to blossom in Britain? I’m pessimistic. I’m also an internationalist. Don’t like nationalism or patriotism. So do i support the EU to stop economic catastrophe or get out to avoid membership of a new-liberal organisation? I’m a remainer because you can’t reform an organization you’re not a member off.

right but what I am saying is if you smell falseness and avarice in the tory pro-EU take you are correct but not because they are secret brexiteers waiting to reap the bounty of a hard brexit but because the EU is not any of the cuddly things it is painted as. They know that, and they'll happily pretend otherwise to sell the idea. Thats the falseness. Thats where your 'aha but you can never trust a tory' bit is still 100% correct.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

right but what I am saying is if you smell falseness and avarice in the tory pro-EU take you are correct but not because they are secret brexiteers waiting to reap the bounty of a hard brexit but because the EU is not any of the cuddly things it is painted as. They know that, and they'll happily pretend otherwise to sell the idea. Thats the falseness. Thats where your 'aha but you can never trust a tory' bit is still 100% correct.

I fear we will all die still explaining the basics

 

[butchersapron]

I've only started with the link butchers posted but the first section answers that
Against Law-sterity | Salvage

if you're a member you have to abide by their rules: they have control.

Which is why they do not want to be outside - because a real political battle can happen. A real life drag to the dirt political fight. This is all they hate. Get it done under laws or constitution. Take me and ye out of it.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Poland sticking their oar in now Backstop trouble: first cracks in the EU's solidarity with Ireland on Brexit - Independent.ie

But I thought they had this thing called solidarity?

Dexter? Dexter I don't understand what happened to the solidarity?

Somebody please tag Dexter for me I don't know how to do it

 

[butchersapron]

DexterTCN

 

[DotCommunist]

But I thought they had this thing called solidarity?

Dexter? Dexter I don't understand what happened to the solidarity?

Somebody please tag Dexter for me I don't know how to do it

the @ symbol followed by username.

 

[Wilf]

Dexter? Dexter I don't understand what happened to the solidarity?

First line of a music hall song for the Brexit era.

 

[Ming]

right but what I am saying is if you smell falseness and avarice in the tory pro-EU take you are correct but not because they are secret brexiteers waiting to reap the bounty of a hard brexit but because the EU is not any of the cuddly things it is painted as. They know that, and they'll happily pretend otherwise to sell the idea. Thats the falseness. Thats where your 'aha but you can never trust a tory' bit is still 100% correct.

OK. I see what you mean. They're still all cunts but for different, equally cuntish reasons.

 

[two sheds]

Can't back it up with anything, that's true. Just a feeling. A no-deal Brexit is a hell of an opportunity if your already wealthy and it'll enable them to push further getting rid of the welfare state. Also they have a track record of telling shameless whopping great porkies. Remember 'No top down reorganisation of the NHS?'. Followed by the biggest reorganisation in its history The Health and Social Care Act 2012. And then Portillo admitting they lied.

eta: I met Esther McVey once (my old local MP for West Wirral). She was campaigning about the local post office closing with a petition. I mentioned the Tory track record on post office closures and asked if her petition was cross party. She lied and said it was.

I did watch the clip btw, lovely to see how brazen and cynical they are

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

First line of a music hall song for the Brexit era.

Be better if it was a Phil Ochs style protest singer in Scotland lamenting the state of the post-Brexit Yes movement. Also featuring “where have all the comrades gone” sang with a daisy chain on his head.

 

[Ming]

I did watch the clip btw, lovely to see how brazen and cynical they are

It's stunning isn't it? The arrogance and contempt for the people who vote for them. Slightly off topic but this ones a cracker for Brexiteer de Pfeffel Johnson. He gets called on his track record.

 

[DotCommunist]

OK. I see what you mean. They're still all cunts but for different, equally cuntish reasons.

we are knee deep in absolute filth and all I have is this trowel. But there are many more, with trowels and we can keep shovelling...

 

[Ming]

we are knee deep in absolute filth and all I have is this trowel. But there are many more, with trowels and we can keep shovelling...

I have a trowel also. I will join you in the trench.

 

[Raheem]

First line of a music hall song for the Brexit era.

I knew it was all a plot to bring back music hall. Making cinema tickets over a tenner each was never going to be enough on its own.

 

[grit]

But I thought they had this thing called solidarity?

Dexter? Dexter I don't understand what happened to the solidarity?

Somebody please tag Dexter for me I don't know how to do it

In fairness, the poles are the only ones to have hinted at breaking ranks and there has been moves by other members to distance themselves from the suggestion already.

 

[grit]

we are knee deep in absolute filth and all I have is this trowel. But there are many more, with trowels and we can keep shovelling...

Law of holes - Wikipedia

 

[TopCat]

That bit's interesting: would harmonize citizens' rights and consumer standards. You'd hope things like human rights and working hours and environmental standards, too. Might give a suitable start for negotiations with the EU?

I admit to not having followed all this too closely, but isn't customs union needed to solve Irish border problem? I can't see the EU agreeing to no customs posts if people are going to be able to import stuff into the UK and then just walk across the border to sell it on into the EU.

No deal means the Irish have to police the border.

 

[Pickman's model]

No deal means the Irish have to police the border.

yeh they'll set up camps for the refugee remainers.

 

[Pickman's model]

But I thought they had this thing called solidarity?

Dexter? Dexter I don't understand what happened to the solidarity?

Somebody please tag Dexter for me I don't know how to do it

it's very simple: @ immediately followed by username.