Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[andysays]

Almost certainly a by-election now in Peterborough. This voted leave in 2016. Big test for both parties. Labour will be wiped out if its further adopted remain by then...

MP convicted of speeding driver lie

No date for sentencing yet, and unlikely anything will happen before the New Year.

Even if there is eventually a by election, the Brexit decisions could all have been made by the time it happens...

 

[Wilf]

Sorry state of affairs when a beleaguered govt can make by-election gains mid-term. It will be an interesting test of where we are - if Labour cannot even hold on to what they have in a by-election, they're in deep shit in a general election.

Not sure of any likely by election date, but even if it hasn't happened it will leave Lab one down when it comes to the final brexit vote

edit: or perhaps that^

 

[Smokeandsteam]

No date for sentencing yet, and unlikely anything will happen before the New Year.

Even if there is eventually a by election, the Brexit decisions could all have been made by the time it happens...

Precisely. In which case it'll be the first public vote post the decision that the political class arrive at.

 

[DexterTCN]

 

[SpackleFrog]

You appear to have a magical belief in the power of parliamentary democracy to save us at the eleventh hour from (what you regard as) disaster.

I think to be fair it's pretty reasonable to believe in the capacity of MP's to come up with a plan to stop (what they regard) as disastrous for them.

It's not like it's complicated either is it? They either vote for May's deal or get rid of May and revoke A50.

 

[Poi E]

How is it disastrous for MPs? They'll still have their jobs. For a while.

 

[andysays]

Precisely. In which case it'll be the first public vote post the decision that the political class arrive at.

OK, I misunderstood your point, I thought you were suggesting this might somehow change the parliamentary arithmetic and influence decisions made about Brexit.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

windmill jolyon is a gade A cunt and the sort of cunt who would scab on anything.

I can't imagine any of them guardian prats with their blue face paint will do anything other than scab, selfishness is kind of the point of them.

 

[SpackleFrog]

How is it disastrous for MPs? They'll still have their jobs. For a while.

They mostly keep their jobs by doing what the bourgeoisie wants, a no deal brexit would be disastrous for the class forces they represent.

 

[Teaboy]

They mostly keep their jobs by doing what the bourgeoisie wants, a no deal brexit would be disastrous for the class forces they represent.

I very much doubt it, money looks after money. Brexit even a hard one is not going to damage the merry go round. Same as it ever was etc

 

[Pickman's model]

They mostly keep their jobs by doing what the bourgeoisie wants, a no deal brexit would be disastrous for the class forces they represent.

MPs will keep a big trough for their snouts

 

[SpackleFrog]

I very much doubt it, money looks after money. Brexit even a hard one is not going to damage the merry go round. Same as it ever was etc

I'm unconvinced a no deal Brexit wouldn't disrupt the accumulation of surplus value but I don't think we'll find out whether it does or not.

 

[Poi E]

Poor Britannia!

 

[brogdale]

I'm unconvinced a no deal Brexit wouldn't disrupt the accumulation of surplus value but I don't think we'll find out whether it does or not.

No offence intended, but the above interaction reads like the tory party in microcosm; one part believes that accumulation benefits from the neo-liberal supra-state, others believe it will accelerate under national 'sovereignty'.

And that's why we are where we are.

 

[ViolentPanda]

"We will unleash forces not seen since the 30s. "
?
Seems like a nice chap. Nice to see a well presented young man on television.

Yes, as well turned out as his role model, Sir Oswald Mosley.

 

[AnandLeo]

Parliament unanimously asserted all the way that they would not allow a no deal Brexit. Are they still certain on that?

 

[NoXion]

Brendan O'Neill has always been a provocative reactionary who's full of shit. Is this supposed to be news?

 

[SpackleFrog]

No offence intended, but the above interaction reads like the tory party in microcosm; one part believes that accumulation benefits from the neo-liberal supra-state, others believe it will accelerate under national 'sovereignty'.

And that's why we are where we are.

I don't disagree with that at all but the section of the Tory party that favours 'national sovereignty' is quite a bit smaller than the other section, who have the advantage that they will be able to get Labour to vote with them. The number of MP's in Parliament who want no deal isn't significant.

 

[dshl]

every which way out is a disaster, stay is a disaster, leave is a disaster, zimbabwe+++ is a disaster, and all because of one line left out of the brexit referendum legislation saying 'and this will only happen if x% vote for a result'. as it is we have a referendum in which broadly half the voters who turned out went one way and broadly half the other.

Why should that x be anything more or less than 49 for remainers or 51 for leavers?

 

[Pickman's model]

Why should that x be anything more or less than 49 for remainers or 51 for leavers?

Because when big questions are decided you generally need a decisive majority. Apparently it was 60% in the 1975 referendum. There'd be none of this second referendum nonsense if there's been a required margin of opinion before action was taken

 

[Cloo]

I can't believe some of those people who go 'Ah well, everything going to shit will bring back the Blitz Spirit and toughen people up and make them rally together'. Uhm, yeah, that may work when everyone is menaced by an external force, but when the shitstorm's been brought about by basically half the population, in a massively unequal society where the upper % will be massively insulated from its effects, it's not quite the same thing, is it?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Because when big questions are decided you generally need a decisive majority. Apparently it was 60% in the 1975 referendum. There'd be none of this second referendum nonsense if there's been a required margin of opinion before action was taken

I'm not sure how much it would have helped to have had Farage ranting about how the vote was stacked in favour of remain all through the referendum campaign to be fair. It was bad enough as it was, could have been worse.

 

[DexterTCN]

I can't believe some of those people who go 'Ah well, everything going to shit will bring back the Blitz Spirit and toughen people up and make them rally together'...

Not been reading the posts on this thread then?

 

[teuchter]

Because when big questions are decided you generally need a decisive majority. Apparently it was 60% in the 1975 referendum. There'd be none of this second referendum nonsense if there's been a required margin of opinion before action was taken

There'd have been none of this nonsense at all and this thread would never have existed.

 

[Supine]

There'd have been none of this nonsense at all and this thread would never have existed.

We wish

 

[Pickman's model]

There'd have been none of this nonsense at all and this thread would never have existed.

And we'd recall your finest moments on the dogging or toilet lock threads and not the dross you've inflicted on us on this one

 

[TopCat]

I can't believe some of those people who go 'Ah well, everything going to shit will bring back the Blitz Spirit and toughen people up and make them rally together'. Uhm, yeah, that may work when everyone is menaced by an external force, but when the shitstorm's been brought about by basically half the population, in a massively unequal society where the upper % will be massively insulated from its effects, it's not quite the same thing, is it?

If you think the shit was caused by the half who voted Leave you are kidding yourself. This shit has been piling up for years and the haves cared not a jot.

 

[Sue]

never liked jolyons since i first encountered the name in a tintin book

Though the ones in the Forsyte Saga were generally quite decent...

 

[Pickman's model]

I can't believe some of those people who go 'Ah well, everything going to shit will bring back the Blitz Spirit and toughen people up and make them rally together'. Uhm, yeah, that may work when everyone is menaced by an external force, but when the shitstorm's been brought about by basically half the population, in a massively unequal society where the upper % will be massively insulated from its effects, it's not quite the same thing, is it?

To be fair the blitz spirit wasn't everything it's cracked up to be

 

[isvicthere?]

Because when big questions are decided you generally need a decisive majority. Apparently it was 60% in the 1975 referendum. There'd be none of this second referendum nonsense if there's been a required margin of opinion before action was taken

1975 was 67% on a 64% turnout.