Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Sprocket.]

1975 was 67% on a 64% turnout.

Yes, 2016 was the second referendum.
And that was bollocks too!

 

[Gerry1time]

If you think the shit was caused by the half who voted Leave you are kidding yourself. This shit has been piling up for years and the haves cared not a jot.

The thing that bugs me is that there's a chap called Tom Steinberg, don't know if anyone here has heard of him. He was big in the early days of online democracy with his My Society organisation, and they did some really interesting stuff early on. I knew him then, and in 2004 iirc, they ran some research to work out how politics was actually working in the UK.

They found two big dividing lines, and the biggest of them was being pro or anti Europe. The data was pretty clear that it was a huge division line, and they sent it to lots of politicians and journalists in the hope they'd take interest. None did.

So yes, the idea that Brexit is a recent phenomenon is way off the truth. It's been staring people in the face for something like 15 years now at least, and they've done nothing about it. Hardly a surprise we are where we are. Not only having voted to leave, but now also completely unable to agree a national consensus on what that means.

 

[DexterTCN]

If you think the shit was caused by the half who voted Leave you are kidding yourself. This shit has been piling up for years and the haves cared not a jot.

Um...this shit was pretty much caused by the half who voted leave...yup.

 

[two sheds]

They found two big dividing lines, and the biggest of them was being pro or anti Europe. The data was pretty clear that it was a huge division line, and they sent it to lots of politicians and journalists in the hope they'd take interest. None did.

Did he say how that correlated with (for example) party vote?

 

[TopCat]

Um...this shit was pretty much caused by the half who voted leave...yup.

You don't see or grasp the anticedants.

 

[Gerry1time]

Did he say how that correlated with (for example) party vote?

I've actually just found the presentation I was sent. Was 2005 not 2004, and it looks like the place it was put online no longer exists, but I'll see if I can find a way of uploading it in the morning...

 

[pocketscience]

Um...this shit was pretty much caused by the half who voted leave...yup.

you really are a bit thick aren't you

 

[TopCat]

you really are a bit thick aren't you

To be fair, remainers across the cognitive spectrum think the same.

 

[DexterTCN]

you really are a bit thick aren't you

You don't see or grasp the anticedants.

lol you sound like tories

 

[pocketscience]

To be fair, remainers across the cognitive spectrum think the same.

I dunno, I can see a lot of sense in the some the of the view points of posters that want to remain, but if there was any remain poster that ever embodied the bitter, twisting, bullshit spouting, cliche gammon type antithesis, it's got to be our dexter.

 

[ska invita]

I can't believe some of those people who go 'Ah well, everything going to shit will bring back the Blitz Spirit and toughen people up and make them rally together'. Uhm, yeah, that may work when everyone is menaced by an external force, but when the shitstorm's been brought about by basically half the population, in a massively unequal society where the upper % will be massively insulated from its effects, it's not quite the same thing, is it?

It's a good analogy tbf: shops looted, dead bodies scavanged for valuables, regular black outs and a diet of bread and sometimes jam, all in the name of fighting the Germans.

 

[pocketscience]

It's a good analogy tbf: shops looted, dead bodies scavanged for valuables, regular black outs and a diet of bread and sometimes jam, all in the name of fighting the Germans.

 

[two sheds]

Needs a few arrows from the UK side I think, like Farage, Johnson, Chlorinated Chicken, ...

 

[pocketscience]

The 'we'll fight them on the beaches' in our time... the bell doth toll...

Do we believe in our own strength or not? Do we believe in the strength of working people, the power of the working class and the poorer layers of British society? If we don’t, we might as well pack up and go home. If the magnitude of the task scares us, there is no point talking about socialism and what the left should do. We can confront these people and defeat them – of course we can. We can oppose the EU and big business and we can defeat them. We should rely on the strength of working-class hostility towards the current regime in Britain and the current state of social affairs – which is very deep. And we can rely on the yearning of ordinary people for popular sovereignty.

coz we iz all gammonz:
EU Reading List
Is Brexit actually going to happen?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I can't believe some of those people who go 'Ah well, everything going to shit will bring back the Blitz Spirit and toughen people up and make them rally together'. Uhm, yeah, that may work when everyone is menaced by an external force, but when the shitstorm's been brought about by basically half the population, in a massively unequal society where the upper % will be massively insulated from its effects, it's not quite the same thing, is it?

It's mad innit. During the Blitz, a foreign power was dropping bombs on British cities. To extend the analogy, this is the British government dropping bombs on its own cities. It is why, outside the UK, the idea that brexit is a very puzzling act of self-harm is so prevalent.

I reckon the only brexit plan that would pass a parliament vote tomorrow would be revoking A50. Who would dare vote against it? 'We fucked up, people. It's a mess and we can't do it. We'd like to cancel the whole thing.' Seriously, how many mps would vote against that if it were presented to them tomorrow as an option?

 

[pocketscience]

It's mad innit. During the Blitz, a foreign power was dropping bombs on British cities. To extend the analogy, this is the British government dropping bombs on its own cities. It is why, outside the UK, the idea that brexit is a very puzzling act of self-harm is so prevalent.

I reckon the only brexit plan that would pass a parliament vote tomorrow would be revoking A50. Who would dare vote against it? 'We fucked up, people. It's a mess and we can't do it. We'd like to cancel the whole thing.' Seriously, how many mps would vote against that if it were presented to them tomorrow as an option?

you are Teresa May ... I claim my funf euro etc

 

[TopCat]

I reckon the only brexit plan that would pass a parliament vote tomorrow would be revoking A50. Who would dare vote against it? 'We fucked up, people. It's a mess and we can't do it. We'd like to cancel the whole thing.' Seriously, how many mps would vote against that if it were presented to them tomorrow as an option?

Most of the MP's on thin majorities in areas that voted leave would vote against.

 

[xenon]

I can't believe some of those people who go 'Ah well, everything going to shit will bring back the Blitz Spirit and toughen people up and make them rally together'. Uhm, yeah, that may work when everyone is menaced by an external force, but when the shitstorm's been brought about by basically half the population, in a massively unequal society where the upper % will be massively insulated from its effects, it's not quite the same thing, is it?

They are just mouth breathing fuckwits. Leave means leave. And so on.

 

[xenon]

If you think the shit was caused by the half who voted Leave you are kidding yourself. This shit has been piling up for years and the haves cared not a jot.

I agree with this though. Let us remember who really brought this state of affairs into being.

 

[xenon]

Um...this shit was pretty much caused by the half who voted leave...yup.

Do you not care why there were so many who caused it though? What Fuled that? Because it isn’t going away come the 29th of March.

 

[Raheem]

Do you not care why there were so many who caused it though? What Fuled that? Because it isn’t going away come the 29th of March.

No, but it's also not going away whatever happens on 29th March.

 

[2hats]

Because when big questions are decided you generally need a decisive majority. Apparently it was 60% in the 1975 referendum. There'd be none of this second referendum nonsense if there's been a required margin of opinion before action was taken

There could be unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June, UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said.

The question of a second referendum was raised by Mr Farage in an interview with the Mirror in which he said : "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

BBC News, 17 May 2016.

 

[gentlegreen]

.

 

[dshl]

Because when big questions are decided you generally need a decisive majority. Apparently it was 60% in the 1975 referendum. There'd be none of this second referendum nonsense if there's been a required margin of opinion before action was taken

Logically couldn't leavers argue the same thing i.e. Remaining in Europe is too big a decision and therefore remainers need to get 60% to stay in.

 

[Pickman's model]

Logically couldn't leavers argue the same thing i.e. Remaining in Europe is too big a decision and therefore remainers need to get 60% to stay in.

let's see someone try and then take things from there

 

[Pickman's model]

Most of the MP's on thin majorities in areas that voted leave would vote against.

Aw don't puncture his bubble of illusions

 

[Supine]

Logically couldn't leavers argue the same thing i.e. Remaining in Europe is too big a decision and therefore remainers need to get 60% to stay in.

No

 

[Pickman's model]

you really are a bit thick aren't you

people in glass houses, pocketscience...

 

[DexterTCN]

Do you not care why there were so many who caused it though? What Fuled that? Because it isn’t going away come the 29th of March.

What fuelled it?

Probably stuff like this.

 

[Poi E]

Wish someone would mock some of those up from a colonised people's perspective.