Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Wilf]

Amid the micro-politics of this shitshow there have been reports of Liddington and Barwell 'reaching out' to Labour and plotting to get a 2nd ref. All routinely denied of course e.g.
No 10 denies making plans for second Brexit referendum

May's denials that there can be a 2nd ref are so long standing and vehement that even with the morals of the average politician, there's no way she could stay in office if a 2nd ref does come about (she'd have to resign of course, can't be booted out by her MPs now). I'm bemused as to where things are up to, but a possible running order may now be:

1. Vote on her deal in January > loses
2. MPs seek to get the right to discuss other options
3. Norway+, 2nd ref and the rest fight it out - most of which will require Article 50 extension
4. May resigns (unless resigned after 1 or 2)
5. Something or other gets passed...
6. … or if not, leave with no deal

Haven't mentioned Labour in that because A) unlikely to have the numbers to do anything other that vote May's deal down. B) I'm not convinced dup will back a vonc at any point. If they do though, that makes everything after 1. above wrong.

 

[Pickman's model]

Amid the micro-politics of this shitshow there have been reports of Liddington and Barwell 'reaching out' to Labour and plotting to get a 2nd ref. All routinely denied of course e.g.
No 10 denies making plans for second Brexit referendum

May's denials that there can be a 2nd ref are so long standing and vehement that even with the morals of the average politician, there's no way she could stay in office if a 2nd ref does come about (she'd have to resign of course, can't be booted out by her MPs now). I'm bemused as to where things are up to, but a possible running order may now be:

1. Vote on her deal in January > loses
2. MPs seek to get the right to discuss other options
3. Norway+, 2nd ref and the rest fight it out - most of which will require Article 50 extension
4. May resigns (unless resigned after 1 or 2)
5. Something or other gets passed...
6. … or if not, leave with no deal

Haven't mentioned Labour in that because A) unlikely to have the numbers to do anything other that vote May's deal down. B) I'm not convinced dup will back a vonc at any point. If they do though, that makes everything after 1. above wrong.

You missed out article 50 cancellation by Parliament without second ref

 

[sleaterkinney]

I thought we had established this on the thread but having caught up with the last couple of days, it seems necessary to say that regardless of whether you voted Leave or Remain if you think there is anything progressive about the EU you are either a moron or the enemy or both.

If you think there is anything progressive about Brexit you're a moron or a fantasist.

 

[Wilf]

You missed out article 50 cancellation by Parliament without second ref

Definitely a possibility, in fact the deeper we get into January without a sign that 'something other than that' could get through it becomes more likely. However as much as MPs are nervous about calling for a 2nd ref on grounds of 'betraying the Brexit result', they will be even more nervous about cancelling A50. Doesn't mean that they won't, but they will feel there has to have been a demonstrable process of 'everything else failing' before that becomes 'last option standing'. Politicians eh?

 

[mojo pixy]

if you think there is anything progressive about the EU you are either a moron or the enemy or both.

If you think there is anything progressive about Brexit you're a moron or a fantasist.

 

[Supine]

if you think there is anything progressive about the EU you are either a moron or the enemy or both.

GDPR wouldn't have happened by a single government in isolation.

 

[Rob Ray]

If you think there is anything progressive about any institutional process left largely untouched by working class leverage over the course of multiple decades ...

 

[mauvais]

Is 'progressive' relative, and if so, to what?

 

[Rob Ray]

Progressing Forward to the glorious socialist future, comrade.

 

[teuchter]

Is 'progressive' relative, and if so, to what?

This is why I asked pocketscience how the EU's measures to deal with antibiotic resistance compare with those enacted by other governments/institutions (I did not get an answer)

 

[ViolentPanda]

This is, essentially, the left reformist argument for the EU. The European bourgeoisie is nicer than the British bourgeoisie.

True, but most left reformists are about as politically-aware as a jam doughnut.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Twenty-four years ago, I was considered a sex criminal by the UK state, for having underage consensual sex with my male partner. He, aged 22, was considered a statutory rapist.

He would have been considered a sex criminal. You would have been considered as an underage victim, as you would not have been of an age to give "meaningful" consent, even though anyone else over 18 would have been. Total shit law.

 

[not-bono-ever]

As a reluctant pragmatic arguably Wank socialist remainer - yes I know - I have to take comfort that at the very least , we are seeing to Tory filth ripping themselves apart over this. On s personal micro level, this is the immediate foe. I don’t think the bourgeois pro EU reformists will amount to much but they never have done anyway . It’s not much to take pleasure from but it’s a start- this is unexplored territory so the unexpected may pop up at some point.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It involves tripping up and falling flat on your face.

...into a big mound of dogshit.

 

[ViolentPanda]

As a reluctant pragmatic arguably Wank socialist remainer - yes I know - I have to take comfort that at the very least , we are seeing to Tory filth ripping themselves apart over this. On s personal micro level, this is the immediate foe. I don’t think the bourgeois pro EU reformists will amount to much but they never have done anyway . It’s not much to take pleasure from but it’s a start- this is unexplored territory so the unexpected may pop up at some point.

You wank socialists? FFS! How depraved can you get???

 

[Puddy_Tat]

He would have been considered a sex criminal. You would have been considered as an underage victim, as you would not have been of an age to give "meaningful" consent, even though anyone else over 18 would have been. Total shit law.

I'm not convinced. i am fairly sure that (pre AOC equality) that 'under age' gay men (over 16) could also be prosecuted (and were) - one of the gay men convicted in the 'operation spanner' case was (at the time of the 'offence' 17 and was not considered a 'victim' by the law.

 

[brogdale]

Elite remainer Oxbridge professor and expert Simon Wren-Lewis (enough caveats?) has produced this helpful(?) graphic showing the various breads with which the tory-Brexit shit sandwich might be made. Yum yum.

 

[SpackleFrog]

If you think there is anything progressive about Brexit you're a moron or a fantasist.

I didn't say that, did I?

 

[SpackleFrog]

GDPR wouldn't have happened by a single government in isolation.

That's your go to? "What about GDPR"?

What's happening inside your brain?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Elite remainer Oxbridge professor and expert Simon Wren-Lewis (enough caveats?) has produced this helpful(?) graphic showing the various breads with which the tory-Brexit shit sandwich might be made. Yum yum.


View attachment 155828

I can work MS Paint and state the bleeding obvious too, can I have an Oxbridge professorship please?

 

[Spymaster]

What's happening inside your brain?

I'm not sure who I find more contemptible; right wing "they come over here, taking our jobs" dickheads, or smug lexit pricks who insist that they've got it right, the rest of us are stupid, and come out with shit like this ^^^

 

[brogdale]

I can work MS Paint and state the bleeding obvious too, can I have an Oxbridge professorship please?

Chair, dear boy.

 

[pocketscience]

This is why I asked pocketscience how the EU's measures to deal with antibiotic resistance compare with those enacted by other governments/institutions (I did not get an answer)

I pointed you towards the UKs own AMR initiative that predates the EU's by over a decade and was it's key influence (as well as the WHOs).
You'll also find that modern emmisions standards were pioneered in california, again influencing/ being taken up by the EU.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Chair, dear boy.

Professor of chairs? Not my specialist subject but I'll take it. As long as I get to wear tweed all the time and drink brandy at 10am I'm happy.

 

[brogdale]

Professor of chairs? Not my specialist subject but I'll take it. As long as I get to wear tweed all the time and drink brandy at 10am I'm happy.

Professor Rowley Birkin!

 

[Pickman's model]

Professor of chairs? Not my specialist subject but I'll take it. As long as I get to wear tweed all the time and drink brandy at 10am I'm happy.

You can wear tweed all the time and drink brandy at 8am at any wetherspoons you care to name without going to all the hassle of taking a doctorate and developing an academic career

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not sure who I find more contemptible; right wing "they come over here, taking our jobs" dickheads, or smug lexit pricks who insist that they've got it right, the rest of us are stupid, and come out with shit like this ^^^

Why does it have to be either / or?

 

[brogdale]

You can wear tweed all the time and drink brandy at 8am at any wetherspoons you care to name without going to all the hassle of taking a doctorate and developing an academic career

*Rumbled*

 

[Spymaster]

Why does it have to be either / or?

The right wingers are less deluded, tbf.

 

[yield]

The right wingers are less deluded, tbf.

It's the extreme centre I'm worried about