Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Wilf]

I'm betting it's mainly UK conservative company owners who will be happy to avoid the upcoming EU anti tax avoidance directive. I'm sure the workers would prefer more money going into the pot for fair distribution.

I'm not sure it's worth distinguishing between 'conservative company owners' and 'company owners'. They are members of a class, that's the important bit.

 

[ska invita]

Maybe, there's just too little energy coming out of it
As mentioned upthread, I'd personally prefer them to be much more vocal on laying out specific terms for their vision of socialist society, but currently you cant do that unless you're specific on Brexit. Labour hasn't been soso ne to spend some if that energy on it.

Well Brexit is defintiely a massive hurdle that needs getting over - its created a vacuum/ black hole in terms of parliamentry politics - good and bad results of that

I'm not sure it's worth distinguishing between 'conservative company owners' and 'company owners'. They are members of a class, that's the important bit.

I like the ones in the labour party
Lord Sugar pledges to leave UK if Jeremy Corbyn becomes Prime Minister

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Are you, in your view anyway, a "socialist remainer"?

The fact that you append the first with the second speaks volumes.

What, on a thread called 'Is Brexit actually going to happen'? In context, it's hardly surprising to specify that you are a socialist who opposes brexit.

I would describe myself as a socialist who thinks brexit is a bloody stupid idea and makes all the things I would like to see even more difficult to get. It places things we still have in jeopardy while imposing things like new border controls that I detest. I would not only describe myself as a socialist but an internationalist. Not a very popular position on here, but there it is.

 

[pocketscience]

Well Brexit is defintiely a massive hurdle that needs getting over - its created a vacuum/ black hole in terms of parliamentry politics - good and bad results of that

I like the ones in the labour party

imo its not a good time to be sitting on the fence (analogy spoiler alert) and getting sucked into the inevitable black hole/vacuum. Labour still seemsto be hedging its bets which is mad considering Corbyn's known to be partial to leaving, yet May, a remainer, has committed herself to it.
For want of a better word, Labour have lost the momentum it had after the GE (small m) because they of it.

if anything, it's the left wing repeating 'Tory Brexit' that's the self fulfilling prophecy

 

[DotCommunist]

an internationalist. Not a very popular position on here, but there it is.

internationalism is supposed to extend beyond schengian borders and generally refers to class solidarity, rather than cheering for the european faction of capital. Nobody has abandoned internationalism here because they don't share your 'remain and reform' view. Nice of you to redefine internationalism and claim it for your own view on the EU though. I remember hilary benn redefining the concept to justify bombs for syria, was it last year

 

[DotCommunist]

O god, oh jesus christ



of course its cucumber snatch

 

[gentlegreen]

Presumably they won't be able to finish the Film until April ? - I wonder how many different endings they would need ...

 

[Brainaddict]

Whichever side of the debate you are on, this tweet is quite special:

 

[pesh]

O god, oh jesus christ



of course its cucumber snatch

wtf

 

[Yossarian]

O god, oh jesus christ



of course its cucumber snatch

I bet the trailer has the only dramatic bits and the rest of the movie is just close-ups of angry people posting on Facebook.

 

[teuchter]

you missed the point. anyone who doesn't give a shit about their chickens being pumped full of anti-biotics really shouldn't care less about chlorinated water to clean them.

Anyone who cares about the chlorinated water thing is likely also to care about the anti-biotics issue. And guess what - the EU just passed new regulations a couple of months ago that are aimed exactly at this, including a prohibition on prophylactic use of antibiotics.

Green light for new rules on veterinary medicines and medicated feed - Consilium

So if we Brexit, is the UK going to go with similar rules or is it going to be looking at the commercial implications of doing so in light of new relationships with trading partners?

UK could use Brexit to avoid EU ban on antibiotics overuse in farming

 

[redsquirrel]

What, on a thread called 'Is Brexit actually going to happen'? In context, it's hardly surprising to specify that you are a socialist who opposes brexit.

There are socialists on here that voted remain, but I don't think they'd call themselves "socialist remainers". Because they can see that the first gives some description of ones politics while the Remainer vs Leaver nonsense is a fight between two sides of arseholes.

I would not only describe myself as a socialist but an internationalist. Not a very popular position on here, but there it is.

What DotCommunist said. Fuck this pathetic shite, don't you dare pretend that others aren't internationalists because they don't share your love in with the EUs "Freedom of Movement"

What is he in your view?

I don't know I've not seen them make a political argument for anything besides staying in the EU. But none of the arguments they've made for remain start from a socialist basis.

 

[brogdale]

Presumably they won't be able to finish the Film until April ? - I wonder how many different endings they would need ...

Plenty of old stock riot footage, surely?

 

[Raheem]

Presumably they won't be able to finish the Film until April ? - I wonder how many different endings they would need ...

There's only ever been one ending. Although I understand there are a few competing plot summaries for the sequel.

 

[Yossarian]

I doubt they'll bring it up to the present day, they'll just finish with the Farage character celebrating, the Cameron character resigning, and the May character arriving at Downing Street, fading out with the words on the screen "The next year, May held an election. She did not do well. And then nothing much happened for a while..."

 

[redsquirrel]

There's an idea that's been growing on this thread.

The British border in Ireland, is a problem entirely of the Irish/EU making.

The problem is nothing to do with the British or Brexit.

WTAF.

Is this the internationalism you're in favour of littlebabyjesus?

 

[Pickman's model]

I doubt they'll bring it up to the present day, they'll just finish with the Farage character celebrating, the Cameron character resigning, and the May character arriving at Downing Street, fading out with the words on the screen "The next year, May held an election. She did not do well. And then nothing much happened for a while..."

It leaves the stage set for the sequel, the eu strikes back, which will itself be followed by return of the jezza

 

[Yossarian]

It leaves the stage set for the sequel, the eu strikes back, which will itself be followed by return of the jezza

Wasn't it the prequels that dealt with endless boring trade disputes?

 

[redsquirrel]

O god, oh jesus christ

Dear God. I think this deserves it's own thread. 19th of Jan, how can we wait.

 

[Pickman's model]

Dear God. I think this deserves it's own thread. 19th of Jan, how can we wait.

Better than what will happen on the night of 29/3-30/3, night of the living dead

 

[Mr Moose]

Oh the portions started declining years ago

When I ordered nachos in the tally ho in North finchley or the moon under water in Barnet in the early 90s there was enough to share. After a year or two the amount of food but not the price declined. Now it's very much a portion for one

Nachos in the early 90s? Early adopter.

 

[pocketscience]

Anyone who cares about the chlorinated water thing is likely also to care about the anti-biotics issue. And guess what - the EU just passed new regulations a couple of months ago that are aimed exactly at this, including a prohibition on prophylactic use of antibiotics.

Green light for new rules on veterinary medicines and medicated feed - Consilium

So if we Brexit, is the UK going to go with similar rules or is it going to be looking at the commercial implications of doing so in light of new relationships with trading partners?

UK could use Brexit to avoid EU ban on antibiotics overuse in farming

Prophylactic use isn't prohibited. Just limited in use to animals that run a risk of desease. So considering the conditions in Europes chicken factories, that'll be about 99 out of every 100 chickens sold.

From your link:

This will be of benefit to animal health and help boost the competitiveness of the EU veterinary pharmaceutical sector...
...
the package is aimed in particular at increasing the availability of veterinary medicines in the EU, improving the functioning of the EU market, reducing administrative burdens and fostering innovation
"It is a win-win for public health and the competitiveness of the EU pharmaceutical industry"

Basically they're handing over free rein to pharma giants in the name of competition. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Duncan2]

This is where I,personally, am at with this thread.A liberal faction argue that EU membership is an( unalloyed) good.The w.c.,while they lose nothing by free-movement-that essential concomitant of membership,in fact gain greatly from the extensive protections afforded by EU employment-law.
A second faction argue conversely that the wc would be better off outside the EU.Whereas employment protection laws are all very well in principle such
"protections" are useless ("get gimped")in the wider context of EU membership.In this context free-movement obtains and workers are actually without defence in the face of mean employers who can ,and sometimes do,dispense entirely with the indigenous work-force long before said work-force has a chance to think about getting organised.This is,as I mentioned, where I,currently,am at based on my experience of doing working-class jobs in the West-Midlands over the last ten to fifteen years.There isn't much dignity at work these days and I would be the first to admit that it is EU workers,especially older ones,who get the least respect.I wish I could be as philosophical about it as they are and,indeed,as the liberals are (worse things happen in Bangladesh etc) but somehow that level of detachment eludes me.

 

[mojo pixy]

Presumably they won't be able to finish the Film until April ? - I wonder how many different endings they would need ...

 

[teuchter]

Prophylactic use isn't prohibited. Just limited in use to animals that run a risk of desease. So considering the conditions in Europes chicken factories, that'll be about 99 out of every 100 chickens sold.

It bans it as routine treatment and reserves it as a last resort. I've no idea what the reality of the implementation will be but it seems to be a meaningful step towards dealing with the problem that you suggested was being ignored in the EU while everyone is getting in a flap about chlorinated chicken. It's not.

Is the EU ahead or behind in legislation dealing with overuse of antibiotics in agriculture, compared to the rest of the world? Do you know?

 

[pocketscience]

It bans it as routine treatment and reserves it as a last resort. I've no idea what the reality of the implementation will be but it seems to be a meaningful step towards dealing with the problem that you suggested was being ignored in the EU while everyone is getting in a flap about chlorinated chicken. It's not.

In factories with 20000 chickens, you'll always need the 'last resort'.

The EU set a limit on nitrous oxide emission limits on vehicles in 2007 and just after that Europe's leading car manufacturers got creative - now we're sucking in 20 times the amount of those limits. What is the EU doing about it?

Anyway, wasn't you the one advocating the UK ignore EU regulations because the French and Germans do it, when we were discussing nationalisation laws?
eta: no it was lbj - sorry.
and btw, the UK has been working unilaterally on it's own amr solutions since 2000

 

[Poi E]

That report shows strong dependency on EU agencies (and other international bodies). The 2017 report on progress specifically described the dependency on the EU European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control for the supply of data to a UK body.

 

[teuchter]

In factories with 20000 chickens, you'll always need the 'last resort'.

The EU set a limit on nitrous oxide emission limits on vehicles in 2007 and just after that Europe's leading car manufacturers got creative - now we're sucking in 20 times the amount of those limits. What is the EU doing about it?

Anyway, wasn't you the one advocating the UK ignore EU regulations because the French and Germans do it, when we were discussing nationalisation laws?
eta: no it was lbj - sorry.
and btw, the UK has been working unilaterally on it's own amr solutions since 2000

What's your point? That EU regulations are toothless?

 

[SpackleFrog]

I thought we had established this on the thread but having caught up with the last couple of days, it seems necessary to say that regardless of whether you voted Leave or Remain if you think there is anything progressive about the EU you are either a moron or the enemy or both.

 

[sleaterkinney]

In factories with 20000 chickens, you'll always need the 'last resort'.

The EU set a limit on nitrous oxide emission limits on vehicles in 2007 and just after that Europe's leading car manufacturers got creative - now we're sucking in 20 times the amount of those limits. What is the EU doing about it?

They modified the testing regime last year. Air - Policies - Environment - European Commission

But actually, the whole point of brexit was to lower standards for businesses, the tories don't want to raise them, that's not the point of it.