Is Brexit actually going to happen?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
teuchter
je suis teuchter
So would you agree that it would be wrong to proceed with Brexit until there has been a referendum in NI, giving people there the above options?
And then if the answer is reunification, a referendum in RoI to ask whether they want it?
...and if RoI says no, then what - we don't do Brexit, or just say tough luck to the people of NI?
The Fornicator
Active Member
It's like the biggest negotiation of their lives is the one the estate agent does for them for their dream home, and that's their basis for deciding how you negotiate in this situation. No folks, you actually have to be prepared to walk away, and then walk away.
The Empire will give nothing. Lets see how the Republic feels when it's largest trade partner says fuck off.
The Empire will give nothing. Lets see how the Republic feels when it's largest trade partner says fuck off.
No, you proceed with Brexit whilst simultaneously giving the referendum to the people of NI, who will be able to join the ROI before the end of the transition period if that’s what they choose.
If the people of NI choose to join ROI and then the ROI reject this then I guess NI will have to stay in the UK but nobody gets to make a big fucking stink any more about how it’s really all just one island and omigosh now brothers separated by a border not of their choosing will have to have a passport to drive across it. Because one of those brothers when pushed went, “er, actually”
andysays
Love and solidarity
Historically, this is nonsense. It's perfectly possible for priorities to change and for one of the parties to a treaty to say "actually, we don't want to continue with this agreement, so let's talk about ending it" or even "we've had enough, we're out", without the initial agreement being based on deceit
It's also funny how some of those happy to call for another Brexit ref in the hope that they get the result they want this time are suggesting that the GFA is in some way permanent as if it were handed to us on tablets of stone.
The Fornicator
Active Member
The Opiad version of Brexit.
Opiad?
The Fornicator
Active Member
The delusional version. The version that has no constitutional basis, has no pathway from here to "giving" "a referendum" "to NI". LIke a Christmas present, perhaps.
The version that denies that tough negotiations have barely even started yet, and yet you're bending over greasing your arse already.
Altogether now: Lets not be beastly to the Germans ...
The version that denies that tough negotiations have barely even started yet, and yet you're bending over greasing your arse already.
Altogether now: Lets not be beastly to the Germans ...
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
Who are you saying is going to give them the right to join the ROI? Your government can't sort your own problems and you're ready to put NI back to the ROI? Without any discussion or without any preparation on the Irish side? It's as if the British Gov want to completely implode because some gobshites arent getting what they want...ie..to wave their British flag and say "fuck the EU we're alright". ....Only that wont be the case. The UK will be fucked after Brexit. Its already heading that way. And the old Stiff Upper Lip is combining with the hard jaw of "We will be great again" and turned the UK into an ugly bossy pain in the ass trying to pretend they are still an Empire when they are fucked.
The only dictators here are the Brexiteers. And the nutty nationalist brigade who want to think they'll be on the lifeboat and fuck the rest of Europe.... Only the boat is a rubber dinghy with a hole in it and there will be no repairing it. Sterling is falling already. It'll fall further. You'll have massive inflation...increased interest rates and you'll fucking drag others into this nonsense and all for what?
Jumping off a cliff together?
By the way, Ireland is not just Eire and NI. The people in NI are Irish citizens too whether you realise it or not.
And why should a fuck up like Brexit force Ireland into a United Ireland before it's ready? Before it is prepared and ready? Before it has the funds to take it on? Eire is in massive debt and trying to just stay afloat. Throwing NI into the mix or rather "discarding" NI because they are suddenly an uncomfortable addition to the UK isn't something to be done lightly.
Don't get me wrong...a united Ireland would be great...But it should be done correctly and with major preparations and funding.
NI is made up of diverse groups of people of very different backgrounds. Unionist and Republican. After the GFA a lot was done to try to get communities to work together and there was and has been a major effort to eliminate sectarianism
I saw a poll last August (I think) showed a 52% majority in favour of reunification with the ROI. But to force it before people and governments are ready would throw some back into entrenched sectarianism. In case you don't know the NIA (northern Ireland asaembly) hasn't sat in ages....the current DUP leadership are so entrenched in their own little weird battle about the Irish language so just think how that group and their grass roots will react to a forced unification of NI into the ROI ...
You live in a country where your politicians are not aligned with paramilitarism. So the Tories or Labour aren't going to start sending people to murder other people for their views on Brexit.
Imagine if you lived in a country where paramilitarism was still under the surface.
You say that the people of NI can decide for themselves....The people of NI were already very clear where they stand. They voted to remain in the EU. That has conveniently been ignored. By remaining in the EU the people in NI maintain a peaceful arrangement of movement of people north to the Republic and vice versa. The country north and south has been a much better place to live since the GFA.
I just read this...
Lol....Well you'll have no decent butter, cheddar or beef from us anymore.
Sterling is collapsing. Not the euro. And the Empire? What Empire? There is no Empire.
48% to 52% is not a mandate to fuck up other countries....And disrupt the peace of your closest neighbours.
andysays
Love and solidarity
If RoI say no in those circumstances, wouldn't they be breaking the terms of the GFA which provide for re-unification if a majority in NI want it?
The Fornicator
Active Member
Goodness knows we don't want to disrespect the Taoiseach, a more honourable, decent politican it would be hard to meet .. How much of a better deal has he done with Brussels than the DUP did with Theresa May?
Geez. The very definition of tl;drWho are you saying is going to give them the right to join the ROI? Your government can't sort your own problems and you're ready to put NI back to the ROI? Without any discussion or without any preparation on the Irish side? It's as if the British Gov want to completely implode because some gobshites arent getting what they want...ie..to wave their British flag and say "fuck the EU we're alright". ....Only that wont be the case. The UK will be fucked after Brexit. Its already heading that way. And the old Stiff Upper Lip is combining with the hard jaw of "We will be great again" and turned the UK into an ugly bossy pain in the ass trying to pretend they are still an Empire when they are fucked.
The only dictators here are the Brexiteers. And the nutty nationalist brigade who want to think they'll be on the lifeboat and fuck the rest of Europe.... Only the boat is a rubber dinghy with a hole in it and there will be no repairing it. Sterling is falling already. It'll fall further. You'll have massive inflation...increased interest rates and you'll fucking drag others into this nonsense and all for what?
Jumping off a cliff together?
By the way, Ireland is not just Eire and NI. The people in NI are Irish citizens too whether you realise it or not.
And why should a fuck up like Brexit force Ireland into a United Ireland before it's ready? Before it is prepared and ready? Before it has the funds to take it on? Eire is in massive debt and trying to just stay afloat. Throwing NI into the mix or rather "discarding" NI because they are suddenly an uncomfortable addition to the UK isn't something to be done lightly.
Don't get me wrong...a united Ireland would be great...But it should be done correctly and with major preparations and funding.
NI is made up of diverse groups of people of very different backgrounds. Unionist and Republican. After the GFA a lot was done to try to get communities to work together and there was and has been a major effort to eliminate sectarianism
I saw a poll last August (I think) showed a 52% majority in favour of reunification with the ROI. But to force it before people and governments are ready would throw some back into entrenched sectarianism. In case you don't know the NIA (northern Ireland asaembly) hasn't sat in ages....the current DUP leadership are so entrenched in their own little weird battle about the Irish language so just think how that group and their grass roots will react to a forced unification of NI into the ROI ...
You live in a country where your politicians are not aligned with paramilitarism. So the Tories or Labour aren't going to start sending people to murder other people for their views on Brexit.
Imagine if you lived in a country where paramilitarism was still under the surface.
You say that the people of NI can decide for themselves....The people of NI were already very clear where they stand. They voted to remain in the EU. That has conveniently been ignored. By remaining in the EU the people in NI maintain a peaceful arrangement of movement of people north to the Republic and vice versa. The country north and south has been a much better place to live since the GFA.
I just read this...
Lol....Well you'll have no decent butter, cheddar or beef from us anymore.
Sterling is collapsing. Not the euro. And the Empire? What Empire? There is no Empire.
48% to 52% is not a mandate to fuck up other countries....And disrupt the peace of your closest neighbours.
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
He doesn't have to deal. The ROI is not trying to leave the EU.
The EU is protecting it's member...ie the ROI. And rightly so.
Are you're implying that the GFA is being used to prevemt Brexit?
The Fornicator
Active Member
You and Kabbes should get a group discount on the aforementioned opiads.
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
I literally don’t know what you’re talking about
I voted remain.Typical Brexiteer.....won't read....cos they know it all already
A sovereign nation, however, can not be told it has to stay in the EU because a different sovereign nation has problems if they leave. This should be recognised as the utter nonsense it is.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
then it's Billy no mates independence (or Patrick no mates, whatever your leanings)
flypanam
Sausage to fortune
Virtuous empire, Thomas Jefferson speak.
The Fornicator
Active Member
the virtuous empire across the shining channel; give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, and about seven billion quid a year.
Reference : Half a Titanic - the price of EU's let them drown policy
Reference : Half a Titanic - the price of EU's let them drown policy
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Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
You're getting the wrong end of it though...
Your sovereign nation is telling another sovereign nation what they should do...and that they should be made reinstate and maintain a border they dont want, with their own people...And also that they should throw out the GFA if it interferes with your sovereign nations nonsensical twattery.
Maybe the UK should put out a vote to Scotland and Wales too. Maybe they should get the chance to stay in the EU too. Eh?
Let Scotland NI and Wales have a vote to either stay in the UK or stay in the EU.
The Fornicator
Active Member
It means you're literally lost up your own arse. Get a grip. Focus. Stay with us.
Yes, sovereign nations have borders. This happens all over the world. It’s hardly a special unique thing invented by the UK.
My proposal is that if the people of the island of Ireland prefer not to have that border in a world in which the U.K. has a border with the rest of the world, this is actually pretty easily solved. But I see no reason why the people of NI should expect to be a special case in which they have no borders with Britain and also no borders with Ireland. Make a choice, which do you want?
And yes, I’m also fine with the Scottish and Welsh having independence votes if they want them.
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Er, ok bitcoin boy. How’s that $100k by the end of the year prediction working out for you? We all quail in the glory of your astute readings of political and economic landscapes.
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
Lol....why should we do anything? We aren't the ones looking for out of the EU?
We have no border with NI.
Why the fuck should we have one because of another country's actions?
We have no border with NI.
Why the fuck should we have one because of another country's actions?
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
Just spotted this...
Lol.
I actually feel a bit sorry for May.
Lol.
I actually feel a bit sorry for May.
The Fornicator
Active Member
No do tell us more of this NI referendum. It sounds fascinating. I promise not to laugh at you. I wouldn't want to question your internet status, or undermine your message board capital.
Please don't feel threatened.
Because that’s how it works when other countries leave the EU. Borders appear. But you don’t get to insist others stay part of the EU forever because you don’t like having borders.
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