Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Sprocket.]

Which alias is he using lately?

 

[paolo]

Which alias is he using lately?

His usual pretend name, but now trying to latch onto brexit.

Prey on people’s fears - the playbook is ... well, that.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Great, failte. Now, it’s time to have a look at how the EU has treated Ireland, this is a useful start...

42% of Europe’s banking crisis paid by Ireland and https://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxf...st-austerity-inequality-ireland-120913-en.pdf

This is the thing there’s a bubble of folks across Europe that seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that it’s only fascists that oppose the EU- but can they not see the only difference here is we had a vote on it. None of them really connecting with the people where they actually live, it’s all very antisocial. Twitter pals in the twitterverse.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

snag is, if remain had won, then that would be a tory policy as well.

Remain has one. this is what the high and mighty anti-racist has missed. the same 'economic' changes are still going ahead whilst all public discussion gets submerged into this stupid inter-party struggle. business as usual. wookey got what they want. why are they moaning? total waste of time. looks like some monetisable guilt trip vibe tbh.

 

[paolo]

This is the thing there’s a bubble of folks across Europe that seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that it’s only fascists that oppose the EU- but can they not see the only difference here is we had a vote on it. None of them really connecting with the people where they actually live, it’s all very antisocial. Twitter pals in the twitterverse.

Yes and add another six or ten factions. A mixture of small c conservative, left leaning, radical right, radical left, pro and anti EU.

It used to be easy to know who to hate

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Yes and add another six or ten factions. A mixture of small c conservative, left leaning, radical right, radical left, pro and anti EU.

It used to be easy to know who to hate

as an aside;
I hate the term left leaning by the way. It’s quite a managerial term that one, gives me the dry boak. Plant your feet or get tae!

 

[ManchesterBeth]

as an aside;
I hate the term left leaning by the way. It’s quite a managerial term that one, gives me the dry boak. Plant your feet or get tae!

'social fascist' leaning?

 

[paolo]

as an aside;
I hate the term left leaning by the way. It’s quite a managerial term that one, gives me the dry boak. Plant your feet or get tae!

It’s my centrist euphism. I’m not actually from Surrey, but I can pull it off sometimes.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

i still regret egham massively. most drab place ive ever lived. tiny overcrowded pubs as well.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

It’s my centrist euphism. I’m not actually from Surrey, but I can pull it off sometimes.

It’s a cracking centrist euphemism!

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

...too much derail in hindsight...

 

[The Fornicator]

Of all people Pamela Anderson this morning offers clear-eyed thoughts on Brexit, and particularly Lexit. She seems to have this aspect nailed :

If you read coverage of Brexit in The Guardian, for example, you might think that the end of the world or Armageddon is due at 1pm local time on 29th March 2019, the Brexit time. The Guardian, the metropolitan elites and the likes describe the EU as some sort of humanitarian charity that is a force of unquestionable good and that nothing is more important than being a member of it, no matter what.

But let's be honest. For the bureaucrats and shareholders of the biggest global corporations the EU is nothing more than their own pet project. The main pillar of the EU is free trade without any national limitations, including national tariffs and laws protecting workers, consumers or nature. I am fully aware that the EU helped achieve a lot of good and introduced many measures that have been beneficial to the people and to life on this planet. But this is just a disguise used to ensure its true purpose.

There are neoliberal policies enshrined in EU treaties which EU countries are forced to implement even if against their will. Inequality between the EU countries has been increasing. Weaker states have been pushed deeper into crisis. Just look at Greece - and the barbaric treatment it had to endure - to see the true ruthlessness of the EU.

Pam gets it! Well, some of it.

Brexit and I (also starring Shakespeare and Churchill)

 

[gentlegreen]

Nothing on Periscope yet about the march - what time is it supposed to start ?

 

[gentlegreen]

The Brexit 'betrayal' march must leave from Park Lane by 12.30pm and follow a set route to Parliament Street. No-one is allowed to join en-route and no vehicles will be allowed.
The march must take place between 12.30pm and 2pm, and the rally must end by 3.30pm.

A counter-protest by Oppose Tommy Robinson and Unite Against Racism & Fascism must march from Portland Place along a set route to Whitehall and set off by 12pm. No-one is allowed to join en-route and no vehicles will be allowed.
The march must end by 1.15pm and a rally in Whitehall, near Trafalgar Square, must end by 4.30pm.

Tommy Robinson and Ukip to lead Brexit 'betrayal' march - live

 

[paolo]

Of all people Pamela Anderson this morning offers clear-eyed thoughts on Brexit, and particularly Lexit. She seems to have this aspect nailed :


Pam gets it! Well, some of it.

Brexit and I (also starring Shakespeare and Churchill)

On Greece, misses the point that it was the Eurozone not the EU. Corbyn admitted as much recently.

Arguably it’s two sides of the same coin. Big club of countries exerts will. (I’d rather we were in, but that’s a “least worst” thing rather than any idea of ideological wonder)

 

[The Fornicator]

On Greece, misses the point that it was the Eurozone not the EU. Corbyn admitted as much recently.

Arguably it’s two sides of the same coin. Big club of countries exerts will. (I’d rather we were in, but that’s a “least worst” thing rather than any idea of ideological wonder)

Sure, I think her point is German national interest, as expressed via different European institutions - including ECB (and Lisborn).

 

[paolo]

Tommy Robinson and Ukip to lead Brexit 'betrayal' march - live

Indy using a photo from a pro remain march? Jeez.

Anyhow, I don’t think he speaks for anyone on this thread.

 

[paolo]

Sure, I think her point is German national interest, as expressed via different European institutions - including ECB (and Lisborn).

I’ll admit some cribbing.

My current take is from reading Adam Tooze (halfway) - “Crashed: How a decade of financial crisis changes the world”.

It’s a bloody long read... but my take so far is that the German national interest was not simple bullying, but more an arguably arrogant manifestation of their national thrift. Exemplary exports, combined a social level of distrust for debt. Even if Merkel had wanted to open the big box of Euros, she’d have been screwed locally.

As I say, it’s a long read

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

On Greece, misses the point that it was the Eurozone not the EU. Corbyn admitted as much recently.

Arguably it’s two sides of the same coin. Big club of countries exerts will. (I’d rather we were in, but that’s a “least worst” thing rather than any idea of ideological wonder)

No it was the EU doing the cuntery- the Eurozone is basically countries that have adopted the euro, it’s not a separate institution from the EU ken. but the difference is the EU can’t quite exert the same influence on those outside the Eurozone - well to be fair that’s only concrete fact in the sense a socialist govt in the U.K. hasn’t tried similar- now have you read the difference in wording between the clause we opted out of and the clause that applies to us? It’s like one says “will” and the other says “will endeavour to” - actually I think the difference was even less than that but grammatically- google it,growth and stability pact, I’m past it this morning ! -

Anyway- no precedent. I reckon the ECJ could easily interpret the law to come down hard on a fictional socialist U.K. govt. who knows, it’s all down to the leanings of the judge and what he can get away with eh? all we do know is that The Law isn’t some mythical angel saving the wee man from harm.

And also, fucking reject the institution that did that to Greece whatever! Fuck those cunts!

 

[The Fornicator]

I’ll admit some cribbing.

My current take is from reading Adam Tooze (halfway) - “Crashed: How a decade of financial crisis changes the world”.

It’s a bloody long read... but my take so far is that the German national interest was not simple bullying, but more an arguably arrogant manifestation of their national thrift. Exemplary exports, combined a social level of distrust for debt. Even if Merkel had wanted to open the big box of Euros, she’d have been screwed locally.

As I say, it’s a long read

Great author, very clear. He also explains why so many politicians - esp. Tory - are now second rate, and actually the *wrong type*.

You have probably seen this - highly rec to all : 113 | Crashed

 

[paolo]

No it was the EU doing the cuntery- the Eurozone is basically countries that have adopted the euro, it’s not a separate institution from the EU ken. but the difference is the EU can’t quite exert the same influence on those outside the Eurozone - well to be fair that’s only concrete fact in the sense a socialist govt in the U.K. hasn’t tried similar- now have you read the difference in wording between the clause we opted out of and the clause that applies to us? It’s like one says “will” and the other says “will endeavour to” - actually I think the difference was even less than that but grammatically- google it,growth and stability pact, I’m past it this morning ! -

Anyway- no precedent. I reckon the ECJ could easily interpret the law to come down hard on a fictional socialist U.K. govt. who knows, it’s all down to the leanings of the judge and what he can get away with eh? all we do know is that The Law isn’t some mythical angel saving the wee man from harm.

And also, fucking reject the institution that did that to Greece whatever! Fuck those cunts!

I think you’re right on most of that. It’s largely the same ideology.

If Greece hadn’t been in the Eurozone, they could have done their own begging. Or printing. Or “extend and pretend”

They could have - were almost certain to be - the “poor man of europe”, but at least could have set their own (likely horrible) destiny.


I’m waffling so an attempt at a conclusion... the Euro is fundamentally bad. It marries incompatible economies. They can’t print their own money. The euro isn’t managed centrally in a beneficial way.

The Euro works for big economies like France and Germany. It doesn’t work for smaller ones.

We don’t have to leave the EU to get out of the Euro. We’re not in it. Not being in it today, and still not being it next year, make shit all difference to the small Eurozone countries.

 

[kabbes]

Ironically, as one of those big economies ourselves, it isn’t obvious we wouldn’t economically have been one of the winners rather than losers from being in the Euro.

I say that merely as a statistical observation. It’s doesnt change any of the rest of the reasons why it was an ideologically bad idea.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I think you’re right on most of that. It’s largely the same ideology.

If Greece hadn’t been in the Eurozone, they could have done their own begging. Or printing. Or “extend and pretend”

They could have - were almost certain to be - the “poor man of europe”, but at least could have set their own (likely horrible) destiny.


I’m waffling so an attempt at a conclusion... the Euro is fundamentally bad. It marries incompatible economies. They can’t print their own money. The euro isn’t managed centrally in a beneficial way.

The Euro works for big economies like France and Germany. It doesn’t work for smaller ones.

We don’t have to leave the EU to get out of the Euro.

As I’m sure you know what is favourable to business doesn’t help most of us.
We need to mostly focus on everything outside these votes- though I do firmly believe a leave vote does cut down on the roadblocks we would face should the folks get together and fight things again. But I’d go with Danny La Rouge and Ralph Leonard on the unaffiliated radical front.

 

[paolo]

Great author, very clear. He also explains why so many politicians - esp. Tory - are now second rate, and actually the *wrong type*.

You have probably seen this - highly rec to all : 113 | Crashed

The whole book, all the technical detail, is a page turner of WTF?

I think I need to read Picketty next.

 

[paolo]

As I’m sure you know what is favourable to business doesn’t help most of us.
We need to mostly focus on everything outside these votes- though I do firmly believe a leave vote does cut down on the roadblocks we would face should the folks get together and fight things again. But I’d go with Danny La Rouge and Ralph Leonard on the unaffiliated radical front.

I had a side chat with SpackleFrog

It was about finding positives for a different vision.

Tangibles that people could think “yeah, I get that”. Rail nationalisation. That would be a good debate.

 

[gentlegreen]

Live coverage by Tony Blackburn !

Tony Blackburn @tonyblackburn

 

[paolo]

Ironically, as one of those big economies ourselves, it isn’t obvious we wouldn’t economically have been one of the winners rather than losers from being in the Euro.

I say that merely as a statistical observation. It’s doesnt change any of the rest of the reasons why it was an ideologically bad idea.

Being a winner you can take or leave until 2008.

After that... We’d have had to taken a fiscal view ultimately, in the club.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I had a side chat with SpackleFrog

It was about finding positives for a different vision.

Tangibles that people could think “yeah, I get that”. Rail nationalisation. That would be a good debate.

Yeah great idea!
I’m reaching “psychotic” in the spectrum of Hours You Ploughed On For After A Nightshift
But this is what I’ve been doing practically recently, wiping social media on a local level and trying to find a more positive way of engaging.
Had a cracking conversation with a fellow careworker that voted remain 2 nights ago, he was genuinely interested in the reasons I put forward for voting leave as well- was shocked at the stuff I told him re fortress europe “ I had no idea”
But yeah you and Spacklefrog are sound, happy sidechatting!

 

[paolo]

Yeah great idea!
I’m reaching “psychotic” in the spectrum of Hours You Ploughed On For After A Nightshift
But this is what I’ve been doing practically recently, wiping social media on a local level and trying to find a more positive way of engaging.
Had a cracking conversation with a fellow careworker that voted remain 2 nights ago, he was genuinely interested in the reasons I put forward for voting leave as well- was shocked at the stuff I told him re fortress europe “ I had no idea”
But yeah you and Spacklefrog are sound, happy sidechatting!

I have absolutely no idea what you’re on about.

For the record me and spacklefrog have opposing views. We had a polite chat.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I have absolutely no idea what you’re on about.

For the record me and spacklefrog have opposing views. We had a polite chat.

I know you do! Which part of my post irked thee? You seem a wee bit irked!