Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Wilf]

Politicians are quite silly people aren't they?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Next Conservative Leader

Dominic Raab 9/2
Sajid Javid 11/2
Boris Johnson 6/1
Michael Gove 6/1
David Davis 6/1
Jeremy Hunt 7/1

Happy days

Fuck. That is like 'would you rather be shot or hanged?'.

I tipped JRM a long time back, and still feel that that is likely (God help us.)

 

[Wilf]

Fwiw, I still don't see Labour in power any time soon.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Politicians are quite silly people aren't they?

Cameron should be hanged.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Fwiw, I still don't see Labour in power any time soon.

No, and would not like to see it under Corbyn. Under a more balanced Labour leader, then yes. Every party runs out of steam in government, and this lot have had their day.

I honestly think that if Labour had had a more moderate person in charge, they would have won the last one, they came very very close.

 

[tommers]

No, and would not like to see it under Corbyn. Under a more balanced Labour leader, then yes. Every party runs out of steam in government, and this lot have had their day.

I honestly think that if Labour had had a more moderate person in charge, they would have won the last one, they came very very close.

"moderate"

 

[ska invita]

Next Conservative Leader

Dominic Raab 9/2
Sajid Javid 11/2
Boris Johnson 6/1
Michael Gove 6/1
David Davis 6/1
Jeremy Hunt 7/1

Happy days

I think it's a great moment to let Raab have a go, the last lot clearly weren't up to it

 

[bemused]

Now would be a good time for Labour to pull out a lead in the polls.

 

[Rob Ray]

a more moderate person in charge

You mean "right wing." Corbyn is a standard-model social democrat, there's nothing immoderate about him.

Also:

 

[SpackleFrog]

No, and would not like to see it under Corbyn. Under a more balanced Labour leader, then yes. Every party runs out of steam in government, and this lot have had their day.

I honestly think that if Labour had had a more moderate person in charge, they would have won the last one, they came very very close.

As we've just established you're ok with the Nazi prison guard defence so I think we'll be alright without your views on what constitutes a moderate thanks.

 

[Sasaferrato]

If it comes down to a choice between 2nd ref and a crashing out though?

God knows.

I find the whole thing Kafkaesque.

Anyone with two connected neurons should realise that leaving the EU isn't shooting ourselves in the foot, it is cutting our throats.

Did you see the projection on NHS staffing shortages? 350,000 by 2030. We are already dependent on people from the EU, a lot of whom are doing the low end jobs that Brits don't want to do. Under the proposals in the Brexit agreement, those people wouldn't even be in the country. A fine way to say 'thank you' to those who have done so much.

 

[Kaka Tim]

I wonder how cameron is feeling right now? Its him who pulled the lever that said "do not pull this lever!" .

From any sort of establishment POV the damage from the brexit referendum is huge - apart from the economic pain, its toxified politics (to the point of an mp getting murdered) , looks like it could break the tory party, seriously undermined the union with scotland and northern ireland, made the UK a global laughing stock has the potential for cause the mother of all constitutional crises.

All because he thought it would be a clever little weaze to win over some UKIP voters in 2010. "doh!" doesn't begin to cover it. At least chamberlin was aware of the gravity of the situation when he sold out to Hitler - cameron planned this disaster on the back a beer mat one evening down the local inbetween babyshams.

 

[Rob Ray]

low end jobs that Brits don't want to do

NHS work isn't "low-end jobs that Brits don't want to do", it's a spectrum of highly-skilled to precarious labour which has been routinely lacking in training and resources and has historically relied on brain-draining weaker nations to make up for it. Leaving Europe will impact on this strategy, but the whole situation has been shameful for decades.

 

[Sasaferrato]

You mean "right wing." Corbyn is a standard-model social democrat, there's nothing immoderate about him.

Also:

View attachment 152579

When people start talking about nationalising the railways etc, but with no concrete plans as to how to pay, other than more borrowing, it spooks voters.

Corbyn should have romped home last time, but didn't.

You have your view, but I would say that the actuality is that it is not shared by everyone, not even all of those on the left of the political spectrum.

Merkel is a Social Democrat, Corbyn is not.

 

[Rob Ray]

WFT are you talking about, nationalising railways is one of the most popular policies you can offer and was fully costed — unlike the Tory manifesto.

I mean God knows I have my problems with Corbyn (the fetishising of nationalisation as a surrogate for dealing with much larger economic issues being one of them) but at least go after him for real life inadequacies rather than just parroting this bollocks.

 

[existentialist]

Isn't she gonna be proper chuffed if she gets her P45 at this point? I bloody would be.

"Bye then..."

Hmm. I see no wheat. If ever there was a wheatfield repeat moment for May, it'd have to be finally being unshackled from the zombie government she's part of...

 

[Pickman's model]

When people start talking about nationalising the railways etc, but with no concrete plans as to how to pay, other than more borrowing, it spooks voters.

did you know that in 1945 the labour party didn't have a big section on 'how we're going to pay for this' in their manifesto?
British Labour Party election manifesto, 1945 [Archive]

 

[ska invita]

When people start talking about nationalising the railways etc, but with no concrete plans as to how to pay, other than more borrowing, it spooks voters.

Corbyn should have romped home last time, but didn't.

You have your view, but I would say that the actuality is that it is not shared by everyone, not even all of those on the left of the political spectrum.

Merkel is a Social Democrat, Corbyn is not.

I seem to remember the likes of the imf or similar giving a big thumbs up to peoples quantative easing. Generally well received spending plan by the establishment

 

[Pickman's model]

Hmm. I see no wheat. If ever there was a wheatfield repeat moment for May, it'd have to be finally being unshackled from the zombie government she's part of...

she will wake up and smell the remnants of the whaling industry at grytviken, there being no coffee to mask the scent

 

[Sasaferrato]

NHS work isn't "low-end jobs that Brits don't want to do", it's a spectrum of highly-skilled to precarious labour which has been routinely lacking in training and resources and has historically relied on brain-draining weaker nations to make up for it. Leaving Europe will impact on this strategy, but the whole situation has been shameful for decades.

It has. I've spoken before on here about the disgrace of sucking in doctors from countries who struggle to train them. The big train wreck hurtling down the tracks is the diminishing number of young doctors who want to be GPs, that is going to be a real crisis, in fact in some areas it already is. Our local surgery has been advertising for three years, with no joy.

I was thinking specifically of the care assistants that look after mainly the infirm elderly. I occasionally speak to one woman who calls in on an old lady in our square, she is from Poland, the other girl who comes is from Bulgaria.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I seem to remember the likes of the imf or similar giving a big thumbs up to peoples quantative easing. Generally well received spending plan by the establishment

Indeed, but not something that can be done on a never ending basis.

 

[SpookyFrank]

When people start talking about nationalising the railways etc, but with no concrete plans as to how to pay, other than more borrowing, it spooks voters.

Corbyn should have romped home last time, but didn't.

You have your view, but I would say that the actuality is that it is not shared by everyone, not even all of those on the left of the political spectrum.

Merkel is a Social Democrat, Corbyn is not.

We already pay for the railways, in fares and subsidies. Countries with nationalised railways spend less for a better service.

 

[belboid]

When people start talking about nationalising the railways etc, but with no concrete plans as to how to pay, other than more borrowing, it spooks voters.

Corbyn should have romped home last time, but didn't.

You have your view, but I would say that the actuality is that it is not shared by everyone, not even all of those on the left of the political spectrum.

Merkel is a Social Democrat, Corbyn is not.

For someone who has 'followed politics for 50 years' you seem to have an issue with some pretty basic terms. Merkel is as much of a 'social democrat' as Ken Clarke is. Liberal toryism is not the same as social democracy.

 

[Pickman's model]

When people start talking about nationalising the railways etc, but with no concrete plans as to how to pay, other than more borrowing, it spooks voters.

Corbyn should have romped home last time, but didn't.

You have your view, but I would say that the actuality is that it is not shared by everyone, not even all of those on the left of the political spectrum.

Merkel is a Social Democrat, Corbyn is not.

corbyn's far to the right of auld 'red' jim callaghan

 

[Badgers]

Been in a meeting for an hour, have I missed much?

 

[not-bono-ever]

Been in a meeting for an hour, have I missed much?

It’s all been fixed. Panic over.

 

[Sasaferrato]

did you know that in 1945 the labour party didn't have a big section on 'how we're going to pay for this' in their manifesto?
British Labour Party election manifesto, 1945 [Archive]

Did you know that there was no option? The government commandeered the railways during the war, and so much damage was done to the permanent way that there was no money for repairs, prior to handing the track back to the owners.

It was not only railways nationalised, and the owners were paid out in British Transport Stock. I know this because my grandfather's haulage company was nationalised, and on his death, my mother and her sisters received the stock. I can remember my mother getting the dividend. Don't know what the final outcome was, whether the dividend eventually redeemed the stock, or whether it was paid out. It certainly didn't filter down to me.

 

[Pickman's model]

Did you know that there was no option? The government commandeered the railways during the war, and so much damage was done to the permanent way that there was no money for repairs, prior to handing the track back to the owners.

It was not only railways nationalised, and the owners were paid out in British Transport Stock. I know this because my grandfather's haulage company was nationalised, and on his death, my mother and her sisters received the stock on his death. I can remember my mother getting the dividend. Don't know what the final outcome was, whether the dividend eventually redeemed the stock, or whether it was paid out. It certainly didn't filter down to me.

the point being, you didn't see people quibbling about oh noes how will they pay for nationalising the coal? and what's all this about the nhs? remind me pls, who won the 1945 election?

 

[Pickman's model]

It’s all been fixed. Panic over.

the doctors are no longer sure that theresa may can be fixed - humpty-dumpty being mentioned across the palace of westminster

 

[Badgers]

Rehman Chishti resigned
Sheryll Murray another no confidence