Then they can come out and state that on record and deal with the fallout. If the NI people want to join the ROI, it’s up to the ROI to explain why that can’t happen.
Is Brexit actually going to happen?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Foster came out and said the GFA isn't sacrosant. DUP only party to vote against the GFA back then. She's wrong anyway.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
One of the few rays of sunshine in all this has been the slow-motion self-wrecking of the DUP ever since it decided to back brexit. It has even come with a moment of self-deluding triumph to make it all the sweeter.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
So why should an agreement between the UK and ROI made prior to joining the EU have any bearing on the UK leaving the EU? Any more than the Le Touquet agreement has anything to do with the EU (another one of remains scare-lies).
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The reason is obvious. ROI is in a common market with tariff-free borders open to goods and people from within that market. UK is also currently in that market. Once the UK leaves that common market, it cannot make its own common market with just a bit of the old one while excluding the rest of it without issue.
You sound like Boris Johnson. Nothing to see here, no problems, no contradictions.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I have him on mute, after a few pages.
not-bono-ever
meh
This was my line of thought - the EU stuff kinda overrode the existing Irish agreement - not sure how the post brexit environment would handle this without legislation
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
And given that Ireland has a constitution, it formally overrode it.
Not saying there can't be a solution, but the idea put forward that it's a non-problem is rubbish. This exact problem was being predicted by Martin McGuinnness three years ago.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
this *will* end well 
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Bit rough to accuse me of that
The UK and ROI has free movement of people of Irish and British citizenship. Before the single market we did not have free movement of goods and services. Why should that change?
As well as maggots, rodent hairs and animal feces (to name some) if we adopt U.S food standards
not-bono-ever
meh
Half of the UKs maggot output goes to the EU. True fact
philosophical
Well-Known Member
One take is that in your described scenario the UK government wouldn't have enacted Brexit and presumably therefore would have betrayed the 'will of the people'.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
yet thats not an interpretation i've heard from any leave voter...
no one cares if the Irish border is left open - its simply not a problem for anyone except foaming remainers who make shit up and claim its what leave voters think.
leaving the border open is simply not a political problem, and its not a legal problem with the WTO because the British government can happily point to the physical difficulty of actually controlling the border.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the government will always betray narodnaya volya
Ranbay
The same rules apply
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The last bit. Really, you think the WTO would accept something like that? Seems... Unlikely.
Even Hammond has conceded that it *is* an issue with the WTO.
flypanam
Sausage to fortune
Only if the rest of Ireland was the opinion pages of the Irish Times.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
i assume the WTO has the the word reasonable within its arbitration procedures...
its entirely possible to close the border, you'd dig a 10ft deep, 10ft wide ditch along a 300 mile route, and then put a 20ft concrete wall behind it - but it would be somewhat disruptive to people who's land crosses the border, and there would be very obvious political risks involved. the UK would also point to the, previous to the single market/EU membership, trade relationship with the RoI and the long established 'non' nature of the border and therefore the communities on either side of it.
the crux of this isn't really eventual outcome, its time. the rules of the EU customs union and single market will require the member state to secure its border with a non-EU member state, which obviously it doesn't want to do - it faces the same threat of political violence if it enforces a border with NI, and it is far less capable of withstanding that political violence by dint of the limited size and lack of capability of its police, security and defence forces (as an example, in the 1980's the Army and RAF deployed some 75 helicopters and 15,000 troops to NI, while the RUC had around 13,000 full and part time officers, currently the Irish Defence Forces and AGS have a total of ten helicopters, 8,000 soldiers and 13,000 police) - so the game is about the UK fending off pressure to secure its border only marginally longer than RoI can fend off pressure from the EU to secure its border. the Government of Ireland will not, can not, be the one seen to put a fence along the border, and will (probably) scream blue murder if the EU really puts the screws on - so the EU won't put the screws on, and will support (in practice, if not in words) the UK's efforts within the WTO to have the issue put on the back-burner.
it is simply in no ones interest for the border to be, err.. borderfied, and in everyones interest for it to be shoved in the cupboard and ignored. well, everyone except loons who claim to be worried about the border issue and yet seemed determined to bring one about...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I'll be surprised if loons like the Daily Express don't bang on about people 'coming over here' via Ireland. Especially the first time one of them gets done by the police for something or other.
However, we probably shouldn't overestimate the numbers of EU people so desperate to come to the UK post-brexit that they will try to sneak in. Why would they? I would have thought the difficult issue here would be if the UK leaves the customs union. A complete absence of customs controls between the ROI and post-brexit EU where there are supposed to be tariffs in place would be harder to ignore.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
British flights 'won't be allowed to land in Europe' if Brexit goes wrong, Juncker warns | Metro News
My granddad coordinated loads of British flights to Europe which didn't land. Is that what this scion of the SS wants a return to, huh?
My granddad coordinated loads of British flights to Europe which didn't land. Is that what this scion of the SS wants a return to, huh?
Supine
Newt Member
I shouldn't have laughed at that but I did
My Polish grandfather came to the UK and engineered for the RAF so they could fly. How times change.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Getting a bit Billy Britain aren’t you? No wonder the theme of this week’s conference is blame the forriners.
Things like air travel run on agreements and regulations. We have to have those in place when we leave. We therefore better ask for a deal we can get.
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