Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
maybe the robots can fix ireland. but they'll find it impossible to fix the uk.
Is Brexit actually going to happen?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
paywall, can you c+p?
not-bono-ever
meh
"
Two years ago, in the wake of the country’s most momentous vote for at least a generation, two men shook hands on a factory floor in northeast England.
It was the day after the UK’s June 23, 2016 referendum decision to leave the EU and emotions were riding high after a divisive campaign and a result that came as a surprise to many.
The handshake between Richard Swart, the managing director of the Berger Group industrial products plant in Peterlee, County Durham, and Chris Mellor, a toolmaker, was a gesture of courtesy
Mr Swart fervently backed the Remain campaign. Mr Mellor voted Leave. Two years later they are united in dismay at how Britain’s politicians are handling Brexit.
“Appallingly,” said Mr Swart, speaking on a business trip to Istanbul this week. “A farce”, said Mr Mellor, during a break from the sparks and clatter of the factory, which makes metal rings to seal industrial drums.
Divisions over Brexit have become even more entrenched in British society since 2016 and in a straw poll of industrial workers in Peterlee no one said they would change their vote. Neither Mr Swart nor Mr Mellor would do so.
But both have been discouraged by the failure of Theresa May’s government to set out more clearly what it wants from Brexit.
“The people who are supposed to be running our country are making a mess of it because they can’t agree with each other,” said Mr Mellor, who voted Leave in the hope of lower immigration and more support for Britain’s cash-strapped National Health Service.
The clock is ticking and nothing has been resolved — people are worried for the future
Richard Swart
Mrs May has made a handful of set piece speeches on her vision for the future — in venues ranging from Birmingham to Florence — and has concluded deals in principle with Brussels on divorce arrangements and a transition regime to last until the end of 2020.
But, riven by divisions between hard and soft Brexiters, the cabinet has yet to agree a detailed blueprint for future ties with the EU and is at odds with the European Commission over the biggest political obstacle to a deal: how to avoid a hard border in Ireland.
An EU summit next week is expected to make scant progress, and final agreement may be reached with little time to spare ahead of Britain’s scheduled departure on March 29, 2019. EU leaders are now preparing a call for preparations to be intensified for a no-deal Brexit.
Mr Swart maintained that Brexit is on track to be “the greatest act of self-harm a top nation has done to itself in recent years”.
The North-East was one of the regions that most strongly backed Brexit in the referendum, delivering a 58 per cent vote in favour of Leave.
But, according to government impact assessments, the region could be one of the worst affected by leaving the EU. If the UK were to trade with the bloc on World Trade Organisation terms — one of the hardest of Brexits — the hit to growth would be as much as 16 per cent over 15 years.
But the size of the region’s manufacturing base makes some locals confident.
“It won’t affect me,” said Leave voter Graham Peart, who works for a subcontractor to Nissan, the carmaker that has been given assurances by Mrs May’s government. “It’s one of the main sites they’ve got.”
Some workers in the Berger plant also recalled blood-curdling — and swiftly disproved — warnings, including from the Treasury, that growth would grind to a halt in the months after a vote to leave.
“It’s not as bad as what people first said it would be,” said Kevin Howe, a maintenance man at the factory who voted Leave after initial hesitation. But he worried the EU is calling the shots in the negotiations: “No matter what they offer us, we’ll have to accept it.”
Before the referendum, Mark Scollins, the plant’s production manager, was torn before finally voting Remain. His theory why so many people in the region voted the other way is a relatively simple one: “They wanted to give the government a kick in the nuts.”
At the time, Mr Scollins also thought that Brexit would create a brief “bumpy” patch for the UK. Now, he said: “I think we will struggle for two to three years” — a period of turbulence he says that he can accept “if the outcome is beneficial”.
Meanwhile, the fortunes of the 20-employee factory, which is owned by a German multinational, have largely tracked the British economy’s: 2017 was very strong but recent months have seen some drop-off. To align output with demand, production now stops at noon on Fridays instead of at two in the afternoon.
As the March 29, 2019 Brexit date approaches, uncertainty is making businesses deeply uneasy. Mr Swart is particularly unnerved by news this week that Airbus, the aircraft manufacturer, could leave the country if there is no deal with the EU. He said: “The clock is ticking and nothing has been resolved — people are worried for the future.”
Two years ago, in the wake of the country’s most momentous vote for at least a generation, two men shook hands on a factory floor in northeast England.
It was the day after the UK’s June 23, 2016 referendum decision to leave the EU and emotions were riding high after a divisive campaign and a result that came as a surprise to many.
The handshake between Richard Swart, the managing director of the Berger Group industrial products plant in Peterlee, County Durham, and Chris Mellor, a toolmaker, was a gesture of courtesy
Mr Swart fervently backed the Remain campaign. Mr Mellor voted Leave. Two years later they are united in dismay at how Britain’s politicians are handling Brexit.
“Appallingly,” said Mr Swart, speaking on a business trip to Istanbul this week. “A farce”, said Mr Mellor, during a break from the sparks and clatter of the factory, which makes metal rings to seal industrial drums.
Divisions over Brexit have become even more entrenched in British society since 2016 and in a straw poll of industrial workers in Peterlee no one said they would change their vote. Neither Mr Swart nor Mr Mellor would do so.
But both have been discouraged by the failure of Theresa May’s government to set out more clearly what it wants from Brexit.
“The people who are supposed to be running our country are making a mess of it because they can’t agree with each other,” said Mr Mellor, who voted Leave in the hope of lower immigration and more support for Britain’s cash-strapped National Health Service.
The clock is ticking and nothing has been resolved — people are worried for the future
Richard Swart
Mrs May has made a handful of set piece speeches on her vision for the future — in venues ranging from Birmingham to Florence — and has concluded deals in principle with Brussels on divorce arrangements and a transition regime to last until the end of 2020.
But, riven by divisions between hard and soft Brexiters, the cabinet has yet to agree a detailed blueprint for future ties with the EU and is at odds with the European Commission over the biggest political obstacle to a deal: how to avoid a hard border in Ireland.
An EU summit next week is expected to make scant progress, and final agreement may be reached with little time to spare ahead of Britain’s scheduled departure on March 29, 2019. EU leaders are now preparing a call for preparations to be intensified for a no-deal Brexit.
Mr Swart maintained that Brexit is on track to be “the greatest act of self-harm a top nation has done to itself in recent years”.
The North-East was one of the regions that most strongly backed Brexit in the referendum, delivering a 58 per cent vote in favour of Leave.
But, according to government impact assessments, the region could be one of the worst affected by leaving the EU. If the UK were to trade with the bloc on World Trade Organisation terms — one of the hardest of Brexits — the hit to growth would be as much as 16 per cent over 15 years.
But the size of the region’s manufacturing base makes some locals confident.
“It won’t affect me,” said Leave voter Graham Peart, who works for a subcontractor to Nissan, the carmaker that has been given assurances by Mrs May’s government. “It’s one of the main sites they’ve got.”
Some workers in the Berger plant also recalled blood-curdling — and swiftly disproved — warnings, including from the Treasury, that growth would grind to a halt in the months after a vote to leave.
“It’s not as bad as what people first said it would be,” said Kevin Howe, a maintenance man at the factory who voted Leave after initial hesitation. But he worried the EU is calling the shots in the negotiations: “No matter what they offer us, we’ll have to accept it.”
Before the referendum, Mark Scollins, the plant’s production manager, was torn before finally voting Remain. His theory why so many people in the region voted the other way is a relatively simple one: “They wanted to give the government a kick in the nuts.”
At the time, Mr Scollins also thought that Brexit would create a brief “bumpy” patch for the UK. Now, he said: “I think we will struggle for two to three years” — a period of turbulence he says that he can accept “if the outcome is beneficial”.
Meanwhile, the fortunes of the 20-employee factory, which is owned by a German multinational, have largely tracked the British economy’s: 2017 was very strong but recent months have seen some drop-off. To align output with demand, production now stops at noon on Fridays instead of at two in the afternoon.
As the March 29, 2019 Brexit date approaches, uncertainty is making businesses deeply uneasy. Mr Swart is particularly unnerved by news this week that Airbus, the aircraft manufacturer, could leave the country if there is no deal with the EU. He said: “The clock is ticking and nothing has been resolved — people are worried for the future.”
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
you've had the IMF bods even say that austerity doesn't work, the deficit fetishism was always a political choice sold on the back of 'the nations credit' card nonsense and a vague moral guilt about some mythical good times where 'we' gorged on cheap credit. Its amazing how well the tory version of post-2008 bedded in, repeated near verbatim by big brains.
not-bono-ever
meh
Peterlee was named after a miners organiser IIRC
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
The reason that the negotiations are a shambles is that the most important consideration for the Govt is to protect the integrity of the Tory Party, the effect good or bad on everyone is secondary.
The guy who works for Nissan may not realise that Nissan's biggest shareholder is Renault (45% I think) he might be in for a nasty shock one day.
As for the Berger Group how hard does anyone think it would be to uproot a factory employing 20 people to the continent?
The guy who works for Nissan may not realise that Nissan's biggest shareholder is Renault (45% I think) he might be in for a nasty shock one day.
As for the Berger Group how hard does anyone think it would be to uproot a factory employing 20 people to the continent?
not-bono-ever
meh
berger are not unique in what they do I am afraid - they are niche but not unique.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Remain concerns were there before the referendum. Blair and Major made a speech from NI.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Yesterday's shites.
philosophical
Well-Known Member
How is Ireland a secondary issue?
The ROI is in the EU, the UK is leaving the EU.
Therefore there will be a border.
It is not a game but a practical reality isn't it?
If you're suggesting the border is an issue seized on by remainers to thwart brexit I disagree.
It is with the brexiteers to come up with a solution or they may find they thwart themselves whatever the position of remainers.
not-bono-ever
meh
robots. brexit robots. the peoples robots
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh the soviet union was able to move much larger factories much further in the 1940s
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh they're in as good a state as the people's princess
elbows
Well-Known Member
Boris 'Fuck Business' Johnson contains language that some may find offensive.
Johnson challenged over 'Brexit expletive'
Johnson challenged over 'Brexit expletive'
They were not happy in the mighty City AM newspaper, but I imagine every one has already read that on their way into Canary Wharf this morning.
Editions
Editorial saying he must be sacked immediately.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
In the last ten days or so you've shown yourself to be ignorant of the consequences of the EU immigration policy (even when links have been supplied to you), ignorant of what a concentration camp is and ignorant of the basics of economic philosophy that formed a central part of the post-war consensus. And it's leave voters that need to be educated.
So when you say "educated" you mean the priests need to preach to the heathen once more (never mind they made the same comments during the referendum campaign - see Mark Carney). Though it's good to know that you are opposed to both nationalisations and higher taxes.
isvicthere?
a.k.a. floppybollocks
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
From the US embassy:
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Tbf that clip wouldn’t even make the Handwringo TM thread, there wasn’t nearly enough drama. You’re slacking!
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Yes, but of course they were building superior things like the T-34, IL-2, the katyusha and whatnot. I doubt the likes of Grayling could organize a move in order to make tea, never mind the rest.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
the video says that leavers are terrified of having leave snatched away from them wheras the summary has 'leavers are terrified'
thats a bit of a twist isn't it. Never mind, I'm sure the chortles of our cousins will make sensible politics happen again. Like it always has
thats a bit of a twist isn't it. Never mind, I'm sure the chortles of our cousins will make sensible politics happen again. Like it always has
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
I think that's pretty much what happened isn't it ?
'Virtual border' between Northern Ireland and Republic a possibility - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
July 27 2016
A virtual border using technology could be the solution to maintaining an open flow of people between Northern Ireland and the Republic, Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said.
After his first meeting with new Prime Minister Theresa May, Mr Kenny ruled out the possibility of a hard border in the strongest terms yet.
“I would not agree to a hard border with a whole range of customs posts and neither does the prime minister,” he said outside Downing Street.
“There are other ways of dealing with modern technology in terms of checking trade,” the Taoiseach added.
The Irish Border and Brexit: is Varadkar playing with fire? - Policy Exchange
Aug 6, 2017
A new cold wind has been blowing from Dublin this week on the vexed issue of the Irish land border. The previous Irish position of preparing for a technological solution to minimise border disruption has been overturned. Enda Kenny, Taoiseach until June, had implicitly accepted that a border would be necessary, and had begun preparations, along with the British, to minimise disruption. Quiet contacts had been taking place between officials north and south of the border. As the new Fine Gael government team led by Leo Varadkar has found its feet all of that has begun to change.
First the Irish Foreign Minister, Simon Coveney, said that no border is acceptable. Another government spokesman said that no technological solutions could make a border acceptable. Then in Brussels last week, Leo Varadkar said that the border was Britain’s not Ireland’s problem and that Irish work on technological solutions would cease. Most strikingly he also said that the border should be moved to the Irish Sea. What this implied was that no customs checks should be done at the land border, which would remain largely as invisible as it does today. Instead customs checks would occur at seaports and airports.
This idea apparently came as a surprise to officials in Ireland’s Department of Foreign Affairs, and does not seem to have been based on much thought or analysis. Such ideas are incoherent and unhelpful. The EU27’s negotiating position on the border explicitly states that the integrity of the EU’s Legal Order must be maintained. This means a tightly managed border around the Single Market. The May Government’s position is that Northern Ireland, as part of the UK, will almost certainly be outside the Single Market. Border checks will thus have to take place at the land border, not at Belfast, Larne or Warrenpoint. Indeed, it is difficult to imagine what ‘a border at the Irish Sea’ would actually mean.
The Irish Border and Brexit: is Varadkar playing with fire? - Policy Exchange
philosophical
Well-Known Member
The Irish government are neither leavers or remainers, so their interventions such as they may be, are not the actions of remainers trying to thwart brexit.
gosub
~#
I'd call that grounded analysis
Ireland were forced to vote twice on the Lisbon treaty in 2008. The Irish establishment is very much remain. Vote early and vote often
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