Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Poi E]

People will have to work day and night, not knowing how many hours they might get.

 

[DotCommunist]

Years of plenty followed by years of famine - I would have thought you would have recognised the biblical metaphor.

skinny cows and fat cows yes. Sasseferato invoked the fear gorta more literally

 

[Poi E]

If a hard brexit comes they'll want to sell off public assets and encourage casino capitalism. Destroy our socialist utopia.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I reckon they'll bring back pints at lunchtime though.

 

[magneze]

I reckon they'll bring back pints at lunchtime though.

That went away?!

 

[Poi E]

And thank fuck the 568ml mark on the pint glass will go. Freedom.

 

[Raheem]

That went away?!

You can still have half a litre just after siesta, if you want.

 

[Kaka Tim]

the point about being more prey to neo-liberal forces outside the EU is that the UK will be desperate for trade with the likes of the US who are likely to want clauses that would allow private companies getting a slice of things like the NHS and far more restrictive clauses on what is allowed to be state run than under the EU.
And add to that that the people negotiating these trade deals will be the fucking right wing of the tory party.

As for working class homeowners - a retired person owns their home outright is in a hugely more privileged position than low to average paid workers - and its exactly that group that will least affected by the negative effects of brexit.
why the fuck should they get a special status because maybe they used to work in a car plant? they're pulling the ladder up behind them and voting to take away the decent wages and welfare protection that they enjoyed from everyone under 40.

The EU is a self serving power bloc heavily influenced by neo-liberalism thats institutionalised into its rules and in bodies like the ECB. Its also massively corrupt.

But the only plausible alternative right now is even more shit by an order of magnitude. Brexit means recession, a shrinking of GDP and less protection from market forces - and that in turn means a shrinking welfare state, higher prices, lower wages,more austerity and a shit load of social problems - as well people's lives being fucked over cos of their citizenship status. Oh - and nothern ireland. And things like joint academic projects suffering. And people not being able to go and freely travel and work around the europe.

Yeah - some of that might turn not as bad as forecast. But nothing is going to be better.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

why the fuck should they get a special status because maybe they used to work in a car plant?

Pretty sure they got one vote each same as the rest of us.

 

[toblerone3]

I have a failure of imagination. I can't imagine Brexit actually happening and being accepted in places such as London or Scotland. I also can't imagine Brexit being openly reversed. Something is going to go BANG! I think.

 

[not-bono-ever]

If a hard brexit comes they'll want to sell off public assets and encourage casino capitalism. Destroy our socialist utopia.

I am struggling to think of anything left to flog off- air maybe ?

 

[Poi E]

Scotland.

 

[Riklet]

I was keen not to leave the EU, but the way they have acted since the vote has reversed that mindset. If we had another referendum, I’d vote leave this time round.

Same. It's all very There Is No Alternative.

The rightwing neoliberal parasites wont be going anywhere whatever happens. They are already major influences on EU policy. Most influential newspaper at the European Comission is the Financial Times, which may not be shock doctrine, but shows who's been pulling strings. It's also one of the reasons Brexit is a devastating blow to the EU, as they have been looking to London more than anywhere else over the past decade or two. Brexit will influence that trend, for sure. It has already made the EU cautious about implementing more austerity and imposing fines on Greece or Spain.

Sadly the future of the NHS was not looking too great in May 2016 with Labour nowhere and smug Tories predicting a Brexit stroll and followed by some more sell offs. For all the things wrong with the Leave campaign and the crazies, at least we are pursuing an aggressive strategy, not a defensive limp one, grounded in the hope of the liberal left in the EU saving the day and changing the EU's political direction (granted this did happen in Belgium with CETA). I lost faith in that with Greece. Since Brexit we have seen a continuation of the real nasty face which dictated the shit response to the financial crisis.

And yes most under 30s voted Remain but how many of us were happy with the status quo? A lucky few. And for a generation raised on neoliberalism there's always that hope you too can join them.

 

[SpackleFrog]

there have been moves towards the remunicipalisation of water supplies in some regions in the EU.

Where?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Aye in Scotland and Ireland. However the EU are forcing Greece to privatize their water, despite the fact cities in Germany have been buying back their water as it was all to fuck.

I'll stand corrected on Scotland although I'm surprised - EU very clear last year that there is no exemption for Ireland.

European Commission confirms its view that we are no longer exempt from water charges

 

[Raheem]

I'll stand corrected on Scotland although I'm surprised - EU very clear last year that there is no exemption for Ireland.

European Commission confirms its view that we are no longer exempt from water charges

You're well within your rights to object to this decision, but it isn't to do with whether water can be publicly owned.

 

[SpackleFrog]

You're well within your rights to object to this decision, but it isn't to do with whether water can be publicly owned.

The article refers to charging for water rather than renationalisation of water services but charging for water is one of the key aspects of the privatisation agenda - added to which while the EU allows public ownership in cases of 'established practice' the Lisbon treaty does not allow the re-nationalisation of services once privatised, which is why I shared - at the time I read something much better than The Journal on this but cant remember where right now - I know it has been discussed in more detail on the water charges movement thread.

 

[Raheem]

the Lisbon treaty does not allow the re-nationalisation of services once privatised, which is why I shared

No, this is a brexiteer canard. There have been plenty of nationalisations since the Lisbon treaty. Think about British banks and rail franchises, just for starters.

 

[SpackleFrog]

In any case, both Scottish and Irish water are statutory companies which are subject to govt regulation and I believe in Scotland price setting but they're not publicly owned utilities.

 

[SpackleFrog]

No, this is a brexiteer canard. There have been plenty of nationalisations since the Lisbon treaty. Think about British banks and rail franchises, just for starters.

Those were not re-nationalisations. They were bail out packages. The banks and the *one* rail franchise that was taken into public ownership were not subject to state control and were immediately re-privatised. Don't be dishonest. Where has there been a re-nationalisation of a service in the EU?

And if you're gonna engage, don't use phrases like "Brexiteer canard". At least try not to sound like a wanker.

 

[DotCommunist]

nobody ever said neoliberalism wasn't fine with socialising business debt. Thats pretty much one of its defining features right? privatise profits, nationalise debts

 

[Raheem]

At least try not to sound like a wanker.

I can't be bothered.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

added to which while the EU allows public ownership in cases of 'established practice' the Lisbon treaty does not allow the re-nationalisation of services once privatised,

That's not true. This was linked to in another thread. I may dig it out if I can be bothered, but it's simply not true. There is provision for nationalisation in the national interest - the other thread had a link to the particular bit.

I'm not defending the Lisbon treaty here, but you're misrepresenting it.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

In any case, both Scottish and Irish water are statutory companies which are subject to govt regulation and I believe in Scotland price setting but they're not publicly owned utilities.

Who owns Scottish Water then?

 

[SpackleFrog]

That's not true. This was linked to in another thread. I may dig it out if I can be bothered, but it's simply not true. There is provision for nationalisation in the national interest - the other thread had a link to the particular bit.

I'm not defending the Lisbon treaty here, but you're misrepresenting it.

Kind of irrelevant cos the ECJ decides how the treaty is interpreted. I'm not misrepresenting it though, and if you're going to argue maybe make the effort to find your proof.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Kind of irrelevant cos the ECJ decides how the treaty is interpreted. I'm not misrepresenting it though, and if you're going to argue maybe make the effort to find your proof.

Maybe you could make the effort. I already have done once on here. Maybe read it and link to the relevant bit if you're so sure. After all, you're the one making the claim.

You could search on here. The discussion concerned rail privatisation in particular and how it would be possible under EU rules.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Who owns Scottish Water then?

You could argue the Scottish government does - but it doesn't directly control it which I always think is a key feature of ownership.

The Scottish govt does set prices for water, but it does that by benchmarking against private water companies in England and Wales.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Maybe you could make the effort. I already have done once on here. Maybe read it and link to the relevant bit if you're so sure. After all, you're the one making the claim.

At least link me up to where you've said that? I'm pretty sure we've both down this to death to be fair. Meh.

 

[Raheem]

You could argue the Scottish government does

You could argue it, if you can find someone who thinks they don't.

How about we switch glasses. Can you find some examples of the ECJ or any other organ of the EU blocking the nationalisation of a private company?

 

[Dr. Furface]

Let me help you... Nationalisation Is Not Against EU Law | HuffPost UK