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Is Brexit actually going to happen?

Will we have a brexit?


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I'm personally happy to 'take you at your word' that you've done 'bits and bobs'. Bits and bobs doesn't actually sound a lot but - just so you don't think I'm making some kind of more activist than thou point - probably describes my own level of activism over the last 2/3 years (for similar reasons - health). But yes, part of my reason for asking that question was part of the battle on this thread. If you say you are appalled by racism, what are you doing about racism seems like a reasonable question to me. But there's a more important level to it. Racism has been there for a long time. The extent to which the right version of Brexit focused that racism, precipitated it is a matter for debate. But racism and nationalism didn't start with Brexit. If you want to oppose racism, by all means make your point about brexit. But that isn't the origin of racism. Seems more productive to focus on the nature of contemporary capitalism, to oppose the state and its divide and rule, to think about a world that uses parts of the globe as a repository for cheap labour.
 
Yep I have contemplated this and concluded you think I am a prick, and you wish to invoke 'people' as having the same view as you. If that isn't a description of groupthink it is an aspiration.
No, I’m invoking people having completely different views as me except on one specific subject, namely your contributions to this thread.

My evidence for this is this thread. 180 pages of arguments with each other followed by 40 pages of people arguing with you.
 
I'm personally happy to 'take you at your word' that you've done 'bits and bobs'. Bits and bobs doesn't actually sound a lot but - just so you don't think I'm making some kind of more activist than thou point - probably describes my own level of activism over the last 2/3 years (for similar reasons - health). But yes, part of my reason for asking that question was part of the battle on this thread. If you say you are appalled by racism, what are you doing about racism seems like a reasonable question to me. But there's a more important level to it. Racism has been there for a long time. The extent to which the right version of Brexit focused that racism, precipitated it is a matter for debate. But racism and nationalism didn't start with Brexit. If you want to oppose racism, by all means make your point about brexit. But that isn't the origin of racism. Seems more productive to focus on the nature of contemporary capitalism, to oppose the state and its divide and rule, to think about a world that uses parts of the globe as a repository for cheap labour.
Thank you for this.
I use 'bits and bobs' as a safe descriptor because it is an attempt to land somewhere between showing off, and insincere humility.

I certainly agree that racism has existed long before brexit, but I suppose part of my argument is that brexit can be used as a significant marker in the road. It seems to me to be (in relation to brexit) a 'look what you have done, do you really mean it, do you regret it?' kind of opportunity.
Maybe I see it as akin to casual everyday sexism where a major event such as the Weinstein scandal leads the unthinking to think again and to modify their behaviour.
Part of me thinks that there is an opportunity provided by brexit for people involved in casual (or overt) racism to think about the impact of what they have done and maybe change. In a dramatic see if racists actually see their 'foreign' neighbours dragged away and bundled onto transport, they might change their thinking quite a lot.
In another dramatic sense if people see checkposts and armed infrastructure on the Irish border they may think again about what they have done.
What will it achieve this time?
Probably not much in practical terms because brexit has won, but possibly when the next big event comes along people might consider the impact of what they do more carefully. So I bang on about the border because I want the impact of brexit to be made manifest, certainly not because I want a border to exist.
Apologies if I am mixing you up with somebody else, but if it was you, did your encounter with the child of an IRA person introduce anything to your thinking regarding the border?
 
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No, I’m invoking people having completely different views as me except on one specific subject, namely your contributions to this thread.

My evidence for this is this thread. 180 pages of arguments with each other followed by 40 pages of people arguing with you.
'Except on one specific subject'. That is a good one. You wish to invoke your imagined cohort on one subject alone, then you permit them to diversify?
That's good of you.
 
Ok, well. I asked what you hoped to achieve and I have my non-answer. I don’t think there’s anything else to discuss except in the unlikely chance you actually take a position or stance on something, or ask a meaningful question or, well, engage with anything. In the meantime, I have nothing further to say. I can only wait for the point that this diversion is done and we can all start arguing properly with each other again.
 
Isn't it tiresome to be talking about me anyway? It was better when there was discussion about the nature of democracy or brexit and the Irish border.

If you'd bother to read the first 175 pages you'd discover that before you arrived that was exactly what was happening. Then you came along and posted this:

''Sorry, late to this thread and my first post. Am I right is assuming that everybody who voted brexit is an ignorant racist self serving nationalist brainwashed tosser?''

Which makes it clear that your main interest is not in the nature of democracy but in insulting anyone you happen to disagree with.

So, welcome to a place where you get as good as you (think you can) give.
 
If you'd bother to read the first 175 pages you'd discover that before you arrived that was exactly what was happening. Then you came along and posted this:

''Sorry, late to this thread and my first post. Am I right is assuming that everybody who voted brexit is an ignorant racist self serving nationalist brainwashed tosser?''

Which makes it clear that your main interest is not in the nature of democracy but in insulting anyone you happen to disagree with.

So, welcome to a place where you get as good as you (think you can) give.
It really as simple as this philosophical . I've only dropped into this thread from time to time, but it's been an ongoing battle of evenly matched forces. In fact as mentioned at some point, urban generally voted for remain. Beyond that, the tide has probably gone with the lexit/brexit side on this thread. They/we have been a bit louder, particularly at attempts to portray brexit voters as thick racists. But my point is, there was a side for you to join, allies to make. Have a think why that hasn't happened. Have a think why several people who actually voted remain have been giving you stick. Again, the pub analogy: somebody walks in, plonks themselves down and loudly announces 'you are all thick racists, I hate you'. How does that play out?
 
This was posted?

“'Sorry, late to this thread and my first post. Am I right is assuming that everybody who voted brexit is an ignorant racist self serving nationalist brainwashed tosser?''”

It was about a year ago or two when mud was being slung. We managed to bore ourselves into civilised discussion.

That’s the theme now. I hope. No tropes.
 
This was posted?

“'Sorry, late to this thread and my first post. Am I right is assuming that everybody who voted brexit is an ignorant racist self serving nationalist brainwashed tosser?''”

It was about a year ago or two when mud was being slung. We managed to bore ourselves into civilised discussion.

That’s the theme now. I hope. No tropes.
no, a week ago.
 
Ok, well. I asked what you hoped to achieve and I have my non-answer. I don’t think there’s anything else to discuss except in the unlikely chance you actually take a position or stance on something, or ask a meaningful question or, well, engage with anything. In the meantime, I have nothing further to say. I can only wait for the point that this diversion is done and we can all start arguing properly with each other again.
Thank goodness for that.
Argue 'properly' away, and don't assign to me so much power.
 
Amazing stuff here - he invents a cohort then attacks someone for his invention and attributes it to them. Truly astonishing performance.

How come you are referring to me as 'he'?
Yesterday you referred to me as 'it'.
Mind you dehumanisation is a good tactic for a Nazi to use.
Truly astonishing actually.
 
If you'd bother to read the first 175 pages you'd discover that before you arrived that was exactly what was happening. Then you came along and posted this:

''Sorry, late to this thread and my first post. Am I right is assuming that everybody who voted brexit is an ignorant racist self serving nationalist brainwashed tosser?''

Which makes it clear that your main interest is not in the nature of democracy but in insulting anyone you happen to disagree with.

So, welcome to a place where you get as good as you (think you can) give.
Thank you for the welcome. I was never going to read back over 170 pages going back nearly two years though.
And you are right insulting is a two way street, but personal insulting of individuals here has not been initiated by me, but I will certainly give it back, and I am persistent.
 
This was posted?

“'Sorry, late to this thread and my first post. Am I right is assuming that everybody who voted brexit is an ignorant racist self serving nationalist brainwashed tosser?''”

It was about a year ago or two when mud was being slung. We managed to bore ourselves into civilised discussion.

That’s the theme now. I hope. No tropes.

There was a time a couple of years ago when mud was being slung on here?
And now it has stopped and it is civilised?
Wow.
 
No, not me. Yet again you have the wrong poster.
You are absolutely right, it was banhof strasse who referred to me as 'it'.
I owe you many apologies for suggesting it was you, clearly you have no need to accept my apology, but what I wrote was absolutely wrong and totally incorrect.
I regret mixing you up with banhof strasse, and it is a humbling lesson for me.
I will try to improve.
I am sorry.
 
At least Vince Cable agrees with you, philosophical

Brexit: Older Leave voters nostalgic for 'white' Britain, says Cable
Too many older people who voted for Brexit were "driven by nostalgia" for a world where "faces were white," Sir Vince Cable has said. The Lib Dem leader said the votes of the older generation had "crushed the hopes and aspirations of young people for years to come."

The Lib Dem leader went to say too many older voters were driven by "nostalgia for a world where passports were blue, faces were white and the map was coloured imperial pink. And it was their votes on one wet day in June which crushed the hopes and aspirations of young people for years to come," he said.
 
He is rather loose with his terms, and I wouldn't trust his sincerity in these matters myself. For a start I have encountered 'younger people' (I wonder where he draws the line) who express unashamed racist views, and general hatred of foreigners which influenced their vote one wet day in June 2016.
If he is trying to make a point with the 'one wet day' comment it might be about how a moment in time can imprison us all, and it might be about brexit being forever, yet Parliamentary Elections are for a limited term.
I don't trust him and his party for turning education into a business instead of considering whether education is actually a human right.
 
He is rather loose with his terms, and I wouldn't trust his sincerity in these matters myself. For a start I have encountered 'younger people' (I wonder where he draws the line) who express unashamed racist views, and general hatred of foreigners which influenced their vote one wet day in June 2016.
23 june 2016 was not a wet day, certainly not in london.
 
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