Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[gosub]

I would say so.
Granting permissions (i.e setting restrictions via visas/ green cards etc) is a bit different than implementing freedom of movement.
Its not a trivial difference and if pointing it out us splitting hairs then any discussion on brexit is pointless, seeing as it's one of the key negotiation factors.

Its a whole can of worms within itself. Wen, Chinese wife of a mate of mine, did some work at one of thosee Chinese medicine places - found the staff to be completely exploited, with the hold over them being :don't like it we'll cancel your visa and get someone else over who won't complain...

 

[Slo-mo]

caution: sun link

True, and I don't generally believe a word the sun says, but it will be Very Bad Indeed if the 48 hour week and the agency workers directives are scrapped. Neither is an inevitable consequence of Brexit and you'd hope, with such a tiny majority, the government would struggle to get such a thing through.

 

[Teaboy]

True, and I don't generally believe a word the sun says, but it will be Very Bad Indeed if the 48 hour week and the agency workers directives are scrapped. Neither is an inevitable consequence of Brexit and you'd hope, with such a tiny majority, the government would struggle to get such a thing through.

The UK has an opt out anyway. Every contract I've seen encourages you to opt out. teuchter is right, its a proper dumb article.

 

[Slo-mo]

The UK has an opt out anyway. Every contract I've seen encourages you to opt out. teuchter is right, its a proper dumb article.

Is the 48 hour week compulsory in other European countries then? As in you can't do more than 48 hours even if you want to?

 

[DotCommunist]

every agency I've ever worked for encouraged you to opt out 'clients are looking for flexibility' and so on. I didn't bother looking past the currant bun headline cos wtf

 

[Teaboy]

Is the 48 hour week compulsory in other European countries then? As in you can't do more than 48 hours even if you want to?

I believe so yes, if that country has signed up to it. There maybe exceptions I would imagine.

 

[MightyTibberton]

Is the 48 hour week compulsory in other European countries then? As in you can't do more than 48 hours even if you want to?

There's a big, heavy duty report on that here: Opting out of the European Working Time Directive | Eurofound

From what I can see, 12 countries (including Italy, Ireland and the Scandinavian EU countries) don't allow any opt out from the directive. The others do allow opt outs and they are used to varying degrees - UK is one of four countries with "generalised use" of the opt outs. . .

There's a map on page 11.

(I'm no expert in this stuff, please do check this yourself!)

 

[MightyTibberton]

Apparently May is saying that the plan is for the UK to leave the single market and customs union "but access would continue as now". But that's just not possible.

 

[NoXion]

Apparently May is saying that the plan is for the UK to leave the single market and customs union "but access would continue as now". But that's just not possible.

Especially given this: Brexit: Chief EU negotiator says 'no way' to bespoke trade deal for UK

The May government might be fucking Brexit up royally, but even if they weren't the intransigence of the Eurocrats is disgusting.

 

[Crispy]

Heisenburg's Brexit - existing in all possible states simultaneously

 

[gosub]

Apparently May is saying that the plan is for the UK to leave the single market and customs union "but access would continue as now". But that's just not possible.

It is for the transition

 

[Pickman's model]

Especially given this: Brexit: Chief EU negotiator says 'no way' to bespoke trade deal for UK

The May government might be fucking Brexit up royally, but even if they weren't the intransigence of the Eurocrats is disgusting.

i don't know why. i thought this is a reason for lexit, laying the vicious intransigence of the eu bare for all to see. surprised they're being so genial and flexible myself.

 

[MightyTibberton]

It is for the transition

I don't think so.



The Transition, as I understand it, will just be us staying in everything (the EU says, and we say leaving CAP and fisheries and some other things) but not having votes on anything. This is for the deal afterwards.

 

[MightyTibberton]

(I don't think that's Andy Bell out of Erasure, but I haven't checked.)

 

[gosub]

I don't think so.

View attachment 123299

The Transition, as I understand it, will just be us staying in everything (the EU says, and we say leaving CAP and fisheries and some other things) but not having votes on anything. This is for the deal afterwards.

run a Google search on the Europa website for "cherry picking" and "Brexit" and you will get over 200 separate entries. From the highest to the lowest. EU officials have been at pains to point out to the UK that options are limited.

 

[MightyTibberton]

Indeed, while British politicians continue to tell the UK electorate that they can have all that lovely free trade without any of the nasty "political" stuff. Something's got to give at some point.

 

[teuchter]

the intransigence of the Eurocrats is disgusting.

In what way, exactly?

 

[NoXion]

In what way, exactly?

They're making this more difficult than it has to be. They want this to be a fuckup for the ordinary people of the UK while benefiting the EU project, deal or no deal. They say it's about not giving the UK special treatment, but that's bollocks.

 

[teuchter]

They're making this more difficult than it has to be. They want this to be a fuckup for the ordinary people of the UK while benefiting the EU project, deal or no deal. They say it's about not giving the UK special treatment, but that's bollocks.

How so? Are you saying they are acting against the interests of EU member states?

 

[NoXion]

How so? Are you saying they are acting against the interests of EU member states?

No I'm not. What on Earth prompted you to think that?

 

[MightyTibberton]

What would you like them to do differently?

 

[teuchter]

No I'm not. What on Earth prompted you to think that?

When you said they wanted it to benefit the "EU project" I thought that maybe you meant an overarching political aim of the central bureaucracy, or something like that, rather than the EU as a collection of member states.

Why would you expect them to negotiate in any other way, than to the benefit of the EU? That's what negotiation's about.

 

[NoXion]

When you said they wanted it to benefit the "EU project" I thought that maybe you meant an overarching political aim of the central bureaucracy, or something like that, rather than the EU as a collection of member states.

Why would you expect them to negotiate in any other way, than to the benefit of the EU? That's what negotiation's about.

I see. Well it depends on the EU state in question, doesn't it? The EU project has had different effects on Germany and Greece.

 

[hot air baboon]

according to Nick Timothy ( yeah OK, him ) in the Telegraph it was the Canadians that actually acted to limit the scope of the trade deal - which I think is the first time I've seen that point made. The narrative seems to be that as it ended up represents the Ultima Thule of what could possibly be wrested from the EU



Theresa May means it when she says she wants a 'Canada Plus' Brexit deal. And she should get it

on an unrelated side note : seems like if you go to write for the Guardian you have to grow a beard but if you go to the Telegraph you have to shave it off

 

[gosub]

They're making this more difficult than it has to be. They want this to be a fuckup for the ordinary people of the UK while benefiting the EU project, deal or no deal. They say it's about not giving the UK special treatment, but that's bollocks.

If you go to to a pizzeria, and try ordering a curry, how many times does the waiter have to tell you its a pizzeria before you consider him intransigence ?

 

[NoXion]

If you go to to a pizzeria, and try ordering a curry, how many times does the waiter have to tell you its a pizzeria before you consider him intransigence ?

It's intransigent. And your analogy is crap, it's more like a supermarket that has eggs in stock, but refuses to sell them to you because you stated your intention to start shopping elsewhere.

 

[hipipol]

Heisenburg's Brexit - existing in all possible states simultaneously

Lets set them sort the "entanglements" in the non correlated, Pirate, drug smuggling UK returned to its roots, hurragh, cheese buckets for all!!!!
Oh Dear, I seem to have had a Boris inspired flight of fancy moment.....

 

[hipipol]

I don't think so.

View attachment 123299

The Transition, as I understand it, will just be us staying in everything (the EU says, and we say leaving CAP and fisheries and some other things) but not having votes on anything. This is for the deal afterwards.

There's is NO FUCKING SANTA, give me my fucking presents you Brussels scum...
Oh Bril.....

 

[MightyTibberton]

As I understand it, the EU has done a number of deals on "most favoured nation" terms, including the deal with Canada, that means that any deal with another partner - enter the UK - has to be matched with them.

Now, this is technical international trade talk and until about a week ago I knew virtually sod all about it! This is where I've seen it explained by people who seem to know what they're talking about!

The MFN clause as a challenge to a bold and ambitious UK-EU FTA | Norton Rose Fulbright

It reminds me of the "I must be the highest paid player at the club" clause that is rumoured to be one of the reasons why Jimmy Ffloyd Hasselbaink left Leeds United!

 

[teuchter]

I see. Well it depends on the EU state in question, doesn't it? The EU project has had different effects on Germany and Greece.

Yes.

But that doesn't answer the question of why you are disgusted at their intransigence. They are in a negotiation where they want to secure the best deal for themselves. What specifically is it that they are doing that is disgusting?