MightyTibberton
Well-Known Member
The Mail et al seem to have decided that going with an HE'S AN ACTUAL FUCKING COMMUNIST HE'S GOING TO TAKE YOUR HOUSE AWAY line is the best bet against him.
Is Brexit actually going to happen?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
The Mail et al seem to have decided that going with an HE'S AN ACTUAL FUCKING COMMUNIST HE'S GOING TO TAKE YOUR HOUSE AWAY line is the best bet against him.
H
Humirax
Guest
All I know is that poor working class women were forced to move into slums in Dennis Skinner's constituency thanks to social cleansing- and good old Dennis denies these women and their slum homes exist. The left hand of capitalism is not the answer.
H
Humirax
Guest
People just love capitalism, even those who profess to be 'socialists'.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Should we take that comment literally?
H
Humirax
Guest
I'm not attempting to commincate in riddles. I wouldn't have typed it if it was not to be taken literally.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I think you could be a bit clearer. But I meant the bit when you said "All I know is". I agree with you social democracy is not the answer. Just trying to tease out a little more detail.
H
Humirax
Guest
The sad reality is that people insist on propping up the capitalist system- leaving people like me to try and soften the blows to the working class (which includes myself and my own family) by voting in elections and referendums- I voted remain because I was aware of the harm that brexit would inflict on the already battered working class in Britain. People vote for Labour lefties for the same reason.
But I don't think Corbyn is doing the right thing. Ultimately he is not calling for or supporting direct action and working class self-organising.
He is unlikely to- he is a capitalist politician.
But, though I have been tempted to support him as the only available option- he is not the solution- if he was he would be calling for and trying to organise mass squatting and occupations and a general strike- but he wont' and therefore he will not achieve anywhere near enough.
Even if he does get in it will only be a matter of time before he is voted out again.
I guess I'm going off topic so I'll leave it there.
But I don't think Corbyn is doing the right thing. Ultimately he is not calling for or supporting direct action and working class self-organising.
He is unlikely to- he is a capitalist politician.
But, though I have been tempted to support him as the only available option- he is not the solution- if he was he would be calling for and trying to organise mass squatting and occupations and a general strike- but he wont' and therefore he will not achieve anywhere near enough.
Even if he does get in it will only be a matter of time before he is voted out again.
I guess I'm going off topic so I'll leave it there.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
H
Humirax
Guest
You're welcome
Thanks bud, ta for that.
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sealion
Conformity is the last refuge of the unimaginitive
More likely stabbed in the back by his own party before we go back to the polls.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Got a link for that? It sounds like an interesting story.
On the other hand of course, there are thousands of his own constituents, trade unionists, ordinary people, who have stories of thanks in supporting Dennis for the largely principled and helpful to working class people his life has encompassed. Which might just outweigh your one story. But maybe not eh? Got a link?
Got a link? Does that extend to thousands of working class people who call themselves socialist...but have the temerity to, you know, wear shoes and shit? Buy televisions. The capitalism loving cunts. Got a link?
FTR...revolutionary socialist here, working class born and bred. Not a massive fan of the Labour Party but no fan either of people slagging off working class people who have done good for other working class people, just because they think they can prove a point with ‘clever’ (not really) pithy phrases like ‘the left hand of capitalism’.
H
Humirax
Guest
I heard it from the mouth of someone in the know- someone very closely involved in the housing and social-cleansing struggle. A struggle that was being fought effectively before it was replaced with all this electoral Corbyn bollocks- draining away the energy of that campaign. The person who told me this knew very well what they were telling me and knows the futilty of voting Labour instead of meaningful action and self-organisation of working class people.
H
Humirax
Guest
I was referring to the more direct and active sort of support for capitalism. I'm aware that there are working class people (and middle class people) who identify as socialist but who, in practice are infact capitalists and a minority of working class (and middle class) people identifying as socialist that are genuine about that.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Usually in discussions about socialism it turns out that there are differing views on its definition. So, while you might hold those who are not socialists in the pure or technical sense of the term are not "genuine", from their point of view they simply disagree about the scope of what the term means.
H
Humirax
Guest
No shit
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Ach, teuchter's full of it
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
Interesting stuff on R4 lunchtime news today. Plenty about that still there has been no real conversation about immigration at government level. Plenty of views from folk in a pub in Notts & so on but nobody, people or journos picked up on the lax UK employment laws that makes the UK far more attractive to European migrants than countries like Holland & France. The pub folk generally were annoyed we had not left yet. No real thought about the complexities of the leaving.
Also nothing about trade deals that will have to be done with India who have already stated that any trade deal will have to include free movement of their people into UK. This would in fact be welcomed by large employers who could use labour from the sub continent in place of European migrant Labour & none of that would satisfy the leave voters. Diane Abbot was on there choosing her words very carefully & saying not much at all. Another commentator pointed out that if UKIP leave voters think they have been shafted they won’t return to centre ground they will move further right.
I think the Beeb is deliberatly soft pedalling here. Failing to ask the really hard questions but they are struggling to get any Tory ministers on there now. All they get on there now is rent a gobs like Dunked in shit & Redwood spouting the usual bollocks. The Beeb are fucked here really. If they go too hard they are accused of remoaning so the news is just getting painful to listen to now.
Also nothing about trade deals that will have to be done with India who have already stated that any trade deal will have to include free movement of their people into UK. This would in fact be welcomed by large employers who could use labour from the sub continent in place of European migrant Labour & none of that would satisfy the leave voters. Diane Abbot was on there choosing her words very carefully & saying not much at all. Another commentator pointed out that if UKIP leave voters think they have been shafted they won’t return to centre ground they will move further right.
I think the Beeb is deliberatly soft pedalling here. Failing to ask the really hard questions but they are struggling to get any Tory ministers on there now. All they get on there now is rent a gobs like Dunked in shit & Redwood spouting the usual bollocks. The Beeb are fucked here really. If they go too hard they are accused of remoaning so the news is just getting painful to listen to now.
sealion
Conformity is the last refuge of the unimaginitive
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
She probably meant to say Labour does not support a third EU referendum.
sealion
Conformity is the last refuge of the unimaginitive
I m not sure they know what they want. They are all over the shop just like the tories. What a mess.
bemused
Well-Known Member
Yet - who would bet against it at this moment?
Some consistent polls over the next few months and someone in the commons is bound to put forward an amendment to put the final deal to a referendum.
The simple notion that the public would now be voting for an actual deal to leave or stay would be hard to paint as 'undemocratic'
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
It is a difficult call for both parties. A brexit that works at all is not going to satisfy the leave voter in the street. Neither party dares to spell that out. At some point they will have to.
sealion
Conformity is the last refuge of the unimaginitive
I guess most will be happy just leaving whatever the terms set by the cabal might entail.
Telling the truth to people is not in either's interest. Just gaining or retaining power at any cost.
bemused
Well-Known Member
I'm not so sure. The election appears to have broken the myth that UKIP voters would migrate to the Tories. Brexit didn't even seem a blip in the election.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's all over - privately educated and oxbridge career/life elitist Lord Malloch-Brown had been appointed to talk the sillies down. Because of his common touch, great renown and massive respect i think.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Saw that and thought about posting it on the Guardian is shit thread. Nothing says grass-roots like a former diplomat.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Blair still at it too...
Stopping Brexit more important than Labour winning next election, says Tony Blair
Stopping Brexit more important than Labour winning next election, says Tony Blair
Raheem
Well-Known Member
It didn't really *migrate* to the Tories though. In the main, people who didn't stay loyal to UKIP in the GE reverted to their previous voting behaviour. The theory that UKIP would be a stepping-stone for Labour voters to become Tory voters didn't play out.
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