teuchter
je suis teuchter
What do these eggs represent in your analogy?
Is Brexit actually going to happen?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
So in your mind, negotiating a deal necessarily involves being obstructive and trying to set the other party up to fail? I hope I don't ever have to discuss the terms of anything with you.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
You've still not said exactly what it is that they are doing that's not on. Can you give any examples?
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
...did you not see the article I linked to? It's just one of a number of options that the EU have denied the UK thus far. Doubtless progress in the negotiations is being hindered by the ramshackle government of May the Useless, but you're being obtuse if you really think the EU is entirely blameless for that.
Supine
Newt Member
It’s more like standing in Tesco and insisting loudly that the eggs you buy must be from Waitrose. Tesco just want you to fuck off and stop disturbing their customers.
gosub
~#
what, the ones that are only available as part of a multi buy special offer?
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
The EU has a set of rules. Some are negotiable - and the UK has a history of getting opt-outs from those. Some are non-negotiable, like the 4 freedoms. The EU had been clear from the start of this process that the UK cannot get a better deal outside the EU than in. It cannot have all the benefits of the single market if it refuses to have freedom of movement.
The EU has a right to determine the rules of the club, and the UK has the right to walk away. It’s hardly intransigence to insist that the rules are followed.
MightyTibberton
Well-Known Member
Changing the subject slightly, there's a petition from "Going to Work from the TUC" asking that all current workers rights derived from EU law be kept as EU rules are put into UK law as part of the Brexit process.
Don't cut a single workers' right when making new UK laws | Going to Work
Don't cut a single workers' right when making new UK laws | Going to Work
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I did read the article. What he says seems quite reasonable and predictable.
MightyTibberton
Well-Known Member
Yossarian
⏭️
They got the DUP's Red Hands of Ulster the wrong way around.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Quick round up of what some of the parasites building careers in our movement have to say:
Tony Blair is helpfully making clear what his disciples in the Labour Party actually think by full on saying he thinks it's more important to stop Brexit than to get rid of the Tories: Stopping Brexit more important than Labour winning next election, says Tony Blair
Chuka Umunna, presumably in order to demonstrate how quickly he can respond to Blair's orders, is demanding that Labour come out in support of remaining in the single market, basically meaning we stay in the EU but don't get a seat at the table, can see that being a real vote winner: Labour must say it: Britain should stay in the single market after Brexit | Chuka Umunna
And perhaps most breath takingly offensively, Frances O'Grady says Watch out, the Brexiteers might be coming for your paid holidays | Frances O’Grady - but doesn't say a damn thing about what the TUC would do if this semi collapsed zombie government were to try and scrap the working time directive. Presumably she feels an article in the Guardian warning about something that might happen is sufficient.
Not that the WTD applies to most young low paid workers who are forced to opt out of it of course. But for fucks sakes Frances, you're the head of the TUC, what is the POINT of you?
Tony Blair is helpfully making clear what his disciples in the Labour Party actually think by full on saying he thinks it's more important to stop Brexit than to get rid of the Tories: Stopping Brexit more important than Labour winning next election, says Tony Blair
Chuka Umunna, presumably in order to demonstrate how quickly he can respond to Blair's orders, is demanding that Labour come out in support of remaining in the single market, basically meaning we stay in the EU but don't get a seat at the table, can see that being a real vote winner: Labour must say it: Britain should stay in the single market after Brexit | Chuka Umunna
And perhaps most breath takingly offensively, Frances O'Grady says Watch out, the Brexiteers might be coming for your paid holidays | Frances O’Grady - but doesn't say a damn thing about what the TUC would do if this semi collapsed zombie government were to try and scrap the working time directive. Presumably she feels an article in the Guardian warning about something that might happen is sufficient.
Not that the WTD applies to most young low paid workers who are forced to opt out of it of course. But for fucks sakes Frances, you're the head of the TUC, what is the POINT of you?
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Facilitating the demobilisation and channeling of union power into ineffective avenues whenever possible, mainly. Though it has to be said Frances is pretty limp even for that role.
I was one of the 100 or so people who watched her internet steamed interview with Eddie Izzard for heart unions week a wee while back during the "fightback" against the Trade Union Bill. Izzard managed to come of as the more militant of the two.
Having listened to her telling the audience to lobby anyone they might know in the House of Lords (seriously) Eddie asked "Is there anything we can do beyond that?"
Cue awkward silence.
I was one of the 100 or so people who watched her internet steamed interview with Eddie Izzard for heart unions week a wee while back during the "fightback" against the Trade Union Bill. Izzard managed to come of as the more militant of the two.
Having listened to her telling the audience to lobby anyone they might know in the House of Lords (seriously) Eddie asked "Is there anything we can do beyond that?"
Cue awkward silence.
MightyTibberton
Well-Known Member
There is a petition if you want to sign it: Don't cut a single workers' right when making new UK laws | Going to Work
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
brilliant!Super nige has gone ballistic, his politics are atrocious
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
on what you quote, not really. They can offer a deal which they know ALL their members will accept - and virtually none of their members will accept giving the UK a deal that leaves us better off outside.
In other words, no cake and eat it extra special favour.
As, tbf, they have pretty much said all along
BemusedbyLife
Well-Known Member
Once we leave the EU, the Tories aren't going to stand up in Parliament and say "Yay we're free now let's shit all over the plebs!" (OK one or two might think it). It will happen slowly over a period of a couple of years and in the name of economic growth not restricting rights (they never say that), Instead of opting out of the 48hr WTD, you'll be opted out automatically and have to opt in, then there will be 'special cases' where your employer can decide you can't opt in. Then things like holiday rights or maternity rights will get reduced, not all at once but a bit at a time since we need to be more competitive.
In the absence of the EU the next best thing is a strong Trade Union movement which we no longer have, Even now the UK has the most restrictive labour laws in the EU and only something like 25% of the workforce are in one.
The people who need to be a union the most are the least likely to be in one and would find it hardest to organise without being victimised.
of course if we elect a Labour government (assuming it follows it current leadership philosophy) soon after Brexit then this will happen much slower but the Tories will get back in eventually in 5 years or 10 so in the long term its hard not to imagine that employment rights will be lost.
In the absence of the EU the next best thing is a strong Trade Union movement which we no longer have, Even now the UK has the most restrictive labour laws in the EU and only something like 25% of the workforce are in one.
The people who need to be a union the most are the least likely to be in one and would find it hardest to organise without being victimised.
of course if we elect a Labour government (assuming it follows it current leadership philosophy) soon after Brexit then this will happen much slower but the Tories will get back in eventually in 5 years or 10 so in the long term its hard not to imagine that employment rights will be lost.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Christ, fuck the petition, this govt is like a wounded animal trying to eat itself, the TUC could and should be beating them up and taking their dinner money. Not begging to keep the minimal protections EU regs provide.
But signed it, anyway, cos yeah. Suppose I better had.
MightyTibberton
Well-Known Member
Sorry to be always posting from Twitter, but here are a couple of interesting threads:
Guardian Brussels Corespondent after an interview with Michael Barnier on the EU view of negotiations:
A former UK trade negotiator (now there's a specialist job!) who is now an adamant Stop Brexit person on what he sees as political negatives of the process:
Unrolled thread from @GuitarMoog
Guardian Brussels Corespondent after an interview with Michael Barnier on the EU view of negotiations:
A former UK trade negotiator (now there's a specialist job!) who is now an adamant Stop Brexit person on what he sees as political negatives of the process:
Unrolled thread from @GuitarMoog
MightyTibberton
Well-Known Member
Oh, and a short but sweet one!
If you are interested in following Brexit on Twitter, this man is a good person to follow, particularly as he has an interesting and unusual perspective. He is basically very centrist/soft left, and writes for the Financial Times on legal things. He is a former Eurosceptic who believes the UK should have left at the time of the Maastricht Treaty, after which - he says - leaving became too complex and costly to be a practical proposition. So, he doesn't like the EU, but he doesn't like leaving it either.
If you are interested in following Brexit on Twitter, this man is a good person to follow, particularly as he has an interesting and unusual perspective. He is basically very centrist/soft left, and writes for the Financial Times on legal things. He is a former Eurosceptic who believes the UK should have left at the time of the Maastricht Treaty, after which - he says - leaving became too complex and costly to be a practical proposition. So, he doesn't like the EU, but he doesn't like leaving it either.
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
That’s probably my view. Don’t particularly like the EU but wonder if leaving is worth the effort & will it achieve anything? Something along the lines of better being inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in. Possibly. Caller to LBC yesterday hit nail on head. “Leavers(the ones that call radio phone in shows anyway)only want to leave. They don’t want to know about trade deals or the Irish border”.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This lib-dem party members previous euro-scepticism largely consisted of him arguing the EU wasn't liberal enough - liberal that is, in the sense of aggressively pushing free trade - which in the modern era means aggressive neo-liberalism.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Why the referendum was a terrible idea, in a nutshell.
MightyTibberton
Well-Known Member
I did initially think he was a Tory. I hadn't heard of him before, but I have heard of his blog, Jack of Kent, but I've never read it.
Here's his Sceptic tweet:
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
He's long been a friend of this board. His nuanced and sensible non-extremist liberalism consists exactly of denial that the ideological positions he takes and assumptions he starts from are in anyway ideological. Like much of recent postings on this thread in fact.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
to me the most likely outcome is a humiliating crawling back at some point in the spring of 2019
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