IRA worship
- Thread starter In Bloom
- Start date
You write
"and once again you talk of this "struggle', well it isn't my struggle, it was never more than the struggle of 10 % of the population at most (and i really mean at most, as the IRA never had more than a 1000 active volunteers). The "struggle" you talk about was nothing more than a nationalist bloodletting, that only help perpeuate and reinforce the sectarian divide, it did nothing more than put alot of working class people in graves and jails, whilst nothing changed, we still live in shitholes, we still have the worst wages in the UK, and now we have the Greek farce of watching self labelled socialists suck the balls of industry, close hospitals (the other lots tho) and implement neo liberalism with a nice wee green ribbon.!"
Just because that is what came out of it, doesn't mean that is what it was. The Republicans were defeated, but the struggle they came out of and led - well-meaningly - down a cul de sac, a cul de sac that Adams then exploited, was more than that.
baby is gone with the bathwater.
"and once again you talk of this "struggle', well it isn't my struggle, it was never more than the struggle of 10 % of the population at most (and i really mean at most, as the IRA never had more than a 1000 active volunteers). The "struggle" you talk about was nothing more than a nationalist bloodletting, that only help perpeuate and reinforce the sectarian divide, it did nothing more than put alot of working class people in graves and jails, whilst nothing changed, we still live in shitholes, we still have the worst wages in the UK, and now we have the Greek farce of watching self labelled socialists suck the balls of industry, close hospitals (the other lots tho) and implement neo liberalism with a nice wee green ribbon.!"
Just because that is what came out of it, doesn't mean that is what it was. The Republicans were defeated, but the struggle they came out of and led - well-meaningly - down a cul de sac, a cul de sac that Adams then exploited, was more than that.
baby is gone with the bathwater.
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
gilhyle said:
The Republican Movement wasn't defeated - neither did it win.
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
revol68 said:
Do you think you impress me?
revol68
what, fucking what?
my question is hw could it have ever been anything esle?
how could a struggle based upon a nationalist discourse ever do anything more, especially when it's nationalism alienated it from over 50% of the population by default. The civil rights movement was unable to reach out the protestant working class in any major way because of it's generally middle class aspirations and those within it who had socialist politics had already sacrficed them to a histography that placed the end of partition above all else.
how could a struggle based upon a nationalist discourse ever do anything more, especially when it's nationalism alienated it from over 50% of the population by default. The civil rights movement was unable to reach out the protestant working class in any major way because of it's generally middle class aspirations and those within it who had socialist politics had already sacrficed them to a histography that placed the end of partition above all else.
revol68
what, fucking what?
Divisive Cotton said:
no you daft cunt, but the fact you would wish to show me a s liar would indicate you are somewhat taken back by the notion that im not a LVF member with a portrait of the queen above my pc and a line of coke on the mouse at.
fishfingerer
sultan of cringe
What was the loyalist contribution to socialism in Ireland.
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
revol68 said:
I didn't think that at all. You come across as far too ignorant for that.
john x
Well-Known Member
durruti02 said:
That hypothetical situation is impossible to guage. A quarter of a century is a very long time. It is also a situation that it is unlikely to have come about.
The actions of the British state and its Unionist supporters in the late 60s and early 70's was always going to spark some form of resistance to it. If the IRA had not developed into an effective opposition the nationalist working class would have been battered into submission, and 'orange order' would have been restored. This would have continued until the lid came off the pot again with civil rights mark 2. And 3 etc. etc. with the situation cycling between the highs of a civil rights campaign and the lows of a sudued community living in a police state. During the darkest days of the troubles there were times when the resistance of the IRA was the only thing that nationalist communities had, to be proud of.
When everyone is against you and your whole community is demonised, those who stand up for you will always be held in high esteem.
Is the northern working class better off? I would argue that the nationalist section of it is. Take a look around some of the housing estates around Belfast and you will see that the nationalist community has much better housing now while a lot of the unionist community are still living in slums. While Loyalists were defending their 'orange shitholes' (please don't take offence at that description), nationalists were busy lobbying for better housing and learning to work the system to their advantage. This was all part and parcel of the general resistance to British rule.
The IRA's campaign may have alienated scores of working class unionists but responsibility for their dire present situation, lies with the Unionist and Loyalist politicians who for years, told them to forget about class politics as long as they had the Queen, the sash and a community to look down their noses at.
Which community would I rather be a part of? It has to be the nationalist community. Despite all the pain, there is now a fair amount of hope for the future. The unionist community only has betrayal and despair.
john x
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Does anyone else ever feel like they're on the Flying Dutchman when they read any urban IRA?NI thread.
Each of you is partly right, and therefore you're all wrong.
And twenty years from now, if urban still exists then, these exact same threads will still be on the go.
Each of you is partly right, and therefore you're all wrong.
And twenty years from now, if urban still exists then, these exact same threads will still be on the go.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
always though an old communist had the best answer to the IRA
back in the earlier 70s went to some leftie meeting or other in london where some bloke got up claiming to be IRA saying how they were going to drive the british army into the sea.
that was total fantasty with half the population of the north against them and facing a modern army with a most at thousand gunmen the idea of a military victory against the beritish state was never on.
that said the britsih state could have probably won if they'd prepared to behave a lot worse than they did though the same basic problem would just smoulder underground for a few more years
back in the earlier 70s went to some leftie meeting or other in london where some bloke got up claiming to be IRA saying how they were going to drive the british army into the sea.
that was total fantasty with half the population of the north against them and facing a modern army with a most at thousand gunmen the idea of a military victory against the beritish state was never on.
that said the britsih state could have probably won if they'd prepared to behave a lot worse than they did though the same basic problem would just smoulder underground for a few more years
john x
Well-Known Member
Idris2002 said:
I doubt it. Unfortunately we are still too close to the situation to discuss it without people on either side getting all 'airyated' In twenty years time it will become clearer who's decisions at the time benefitted the people they claimed to represent.
john x
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
fanta said:
There has been a lot of migration away from Northern Ireland as well over the decades... no idea what the figure is though.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
military defeat the ira could have finished them off nearly did debatable if it would have achieved anything. old communist did'nt have a solution but taking up arms against the british army and thinking you could defeat the british army with a thousand gunmen and half the population agaist you was not an answer either or even a realistic stratergy
john x
Well-Known Member
likesfish said:military defeat the ira could have finished them off nearly did debatable if it would have achieved anything. old communist did'nt have a solution but taking up arms against the british army and thinking you could defeat the british army with a thousand gunmen and half the population agaist you was not an answer either or even a realistic stratergy
I really don't want to appear patronising but a few capital letters, commas, full stops and a bit of thought before you post will help immensely. I'm sure I'm not the only one having difficulty with your posts.
john x
cemertyone
Well-Known Member
In Bloom said:
Yeah it is but seeing as your wif`es here with me..i will make an execption this time....
cemertyone
Well-Known Member
fanta said:
But i thought you where British??? at least that`s what you like to tell all and sundry around these parts...Oh i get it!!! your Irish when your away from the mainland and British when your in N-Ireland....
cemertyone said:But i thought you where British??? at least that`s what you like to tell all and sundry around these parts...Oh i get it!!! your Irish when your away from the mainland and British when your in N-Ireland....
No. I am British wherever I am.
Like you're daft wherever you are.
fishfingerer
sultan of cringe
But so is hating the brits, puking and clerical kiddyfiddling.fanta said:
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