IRA worship

[fanta]

Do you think drawing a parallel between Nazism and Irish Republicanism is useful?

Well they were both overtly ultra-nationalistic.

Both were eager to place more importance in nationhood rather than class despite their rhetoric about 'socialism'

Both sought to venerate their own 'superior' ethnic origin emphasising the Germanic & Celtic aspects of their respective cultures.

Both sought to identify themselves as defenders of and avengers for their peoples.

And both had a penchant for militarism, uniforms and were not too troubled about deliberately targetting innocent non-combatant civilians to further their glorious struggles.

 

[revol68]

yeah to be honest if ireland hadn't been ravaged by two competing nationalist doscourses but rather had combined the idiocy, bigotry and violence of both we'd have had a nationalist movement pretty fucking scary.

 

[fishfingerer]

Well they were both overtly ultra-nationalistic.

Both were eager to place more importance in nationhood rather than class despite their rhetoric about 'socialism'

Both sought to venerate their own 'superior' ethnic origin emphasising the Germanic & Celtic aspects of their respective cultures.

Both sought to identify themselves as defenders of and avengers for their peoples.

And both had a penchant for militarism, uniforms and were not too troubled about deliberately targetting innocent non-combatant civilians to further their glorious struggles.

And the loyalists were what, jews, gypsies, queers and communists?

 

[Pickman's model]

Well they were both overtly ultra-nationalistic.

Both were eager to place more importance in nationhood rather than class despite their rhetoric about 'socialism'

Both sought to venerate their own 'superior' ethnic origin emphasising the Germanic & Celtic aspects of their respective cultures.

Both sought to identify themselves as defenders of and avengers for their peoples.

And both had a penchant for militarism, uniforms and were not too troubled about deliberately targetting innocent non-combatant civilians to further their glorious struggles.

but is it useful?

 

[revol68]

And the loyalists were what, jews, gypsies, queers and communists?

yes cos the only people the good ole boys in the IRA killed or maimed were loyalists.

 

[revol68]

but is it useful?

useful in showing how nationalism of any variety is incompatiable with socialism.

 

[Pickman's model]

yes cos the only people the good ole boys in the IRA killed or maimed were loyalists.

when you're finished here, could you go to that other thread and tell me where i was "banging on" about my being on the poll tax riot? it's been a couple of days now and i'm still none the wiser what you're on about.

 

[Pickman's model]

useful in showing how nationalism of any variety is incompatiable with socialism.

wso james connolly wasn't a socialist?

answer that on your return from the other thread.

 

[revol68]

you asked such and such if they had been on the poll tax riot like some ole boring veteran.

And james connolly swang between both but at the end of the day his socialism paid the price of his nationalism as he led the Citizen Army into a nationalist blood sacrifice.

 

[Pickman's model]

you asked such and such if they had been on the poll tax riot like some ole boring veteran.

and it's taken you this long to come out with that piffle?

is that your notion of "banging on"? asking one question of someone else?

of course, you may be feeling that you'll never be able to describe yourself as a "veteran"...

 

[cats hammers]

wso james connolly wasn't a socialist?

answer that on your return from the other thread.

Of course he was, refusing to share platforms with divorcees has long been an unbreakable socialist principle.

 

[Pickman's model]

Of course he was, refusing to share platforms with divorcees has long been an unbreakable socialist principle.

i'm not certain what you're driving at here...

 

[fanta]

And the loyalists were what, jews, gypsies, queers and communists?

Well gee I don't know. If I hazard a guess i would say they're pretty much the same. Any other pointless questions?

 

[cats hammers]

i'm not certain what you're driving at here...

That Connolly's socialist credentials are about as good a socialist as someone such as Chris Bamberry or Michael Foot.

 

[Pickman's model]

That Connolly's socialist credentials are about as good a socialist as someone such as Chris Bamberry or Michael Foot.

you seem to be basing that on very little evidence.

 

[cats hammers]

Well gee I don't know. If I hazard a guess i would say they're pretty much the same. Any other pointless questions?

So what you're saying is that you hate the Irish?

 

[Pickman's model]

So what you're saying is that you hate the Irish?

he's as orange as they come.

 

[fanta]

but is it useful?

Indeed it is, in three ways.

Firstly, it punctures the smug compacency of their apologists, admirers and supporters, secondly, it demolishes the romantic freedom-fighter imagery of an organisation who are basically a bunch of violent gangsters, thirdly it reiterates the argument that class politics should come before nationalist, racist or sectarian politics.

Glad to be of service!

 

[fanta]

So what you're saying is that you hate the Irish?

No, I hate nationalists. Be they Irish, Welsh, Scottish, English or whatever.

Edited to add: Nationalists will often desperately imply or call you a bigot for arguing this by the way. But that just shows their desperation and lack of integrity.

They will accuse you of hating the Irish or the Welsh or whoever.

It's fucking bollocks frankly...

 

[Pickman's model]

Indeed it is, in three ways.

Firstly, it punctures the smug compacency of their apologists, admirers and supporters, secondly, it demolishes the romantic freedom-fighter imagery of an organisation who are basically a bunch of violent gangsters, thirdly it reiterates the argument that class politics should come before nationalist, racist or sectarian politics.

Glad to be of service!

when did this new intelligent courteous fanta replace the old boorish and ignorant bigot?

 

[fanta]

when did this new intelligent courteous fanta replace the old boorish and ignorant bigot?

You fancy me innit?

 

[Pickman's model]

You fancy me innit?

not in the slightest. you are reading too much into my post.

i'm simply curious to find out when you sloughed off the old boorish and ignorant skin and emerged a courteous and (reasonably) intelligent poster.

 

[revol68]

when did this new intelligent courteous fanta replace the old boorish and ignorant bigot?

see the problem is that most people in northern ireland take it as a given that the IRA are a bunch of nationalists fucks who never gave a fuck about socialism and were quite happy to see the blood of the working class drip from their tricolour clothe.

So we tend to have little time for niave wee wanker leftists whose only knowledge seems to have came from The Devils Own or that pile of wank Ken Loach did about the Troubles.

 

[Pickman's model]

see the problem is that most people in northern ireland take it as a given that the IRA are a bunch of nationalists fucks who never gave a fuck about socialism and were quite happy to see the blood of the working class drip from their tricolour clothe.

So we tend to have little time for niave wee wanker leftists whose only knowledge seems to have came from The Devils Own or that pile of wank Ken Loach did about the Troubles.

surely you don't mean fanta?

 

[fanta]

not in the slightest. you are reading too much into my post.

i'm simply curious to find out when you sloughed off the old boorish and ignorant skin and emerged a courteous and (reasonably) intelligent poster.

Things change PM, everything is temporary.

Fanta turns on the charm - you got a job!

Now fuck off.

 

[revol68]

surely you don't mean fanta?

whats the fucking encore? Twinkle Twinkle little star?

 

[Pickman's model]

Things change PM, everything is temporary.

Fanta turns on the charm - you got a job!

Now fuck off.

that's better!

i'm uneasy when people change their personae for no discernible reason.

 

[Pickman's model]

whats the fucking encore? Twinkle Twinkle little star?

are you feeling quite alright?

 

[fishfingerer]

see the problem is that most people in northern ireland take it as a given that the IRA are a bunch of nationalists fucks who never gave a fuck about socialism and were quite happy to see the blood of the working class drip from their tricolour clothe.

However, most people in northern ireland are loyalists whose contribution to socialism in Ireland has been, and I'm quoting you here, "fuck all squared".

 

[Pickman's model]

However, most people in northern ireland are loyalists whose contribution to socialism in Ireland has been, and I'm quoting you here, "fuck all squared".

let's not let the facts get in the way, eh?