Investigating 9/11 Florida flight training schools

[scalyboy]

Don't know whether anyone else has come across the work of Daniel Hopsicker?

He claims to have investigated the Florida flight training schools which trained several of the 9/11 pilot hijackers. Amongst other things, he claims that the Venice FLA school that trained Atta was involved in dodgy drug dealings (see link); that Atta had an 'escort girl' girlfriend who describes him doing coke and drinking heavily (see video archive link on the left of his site); that the FBI arrived at Venice within a few hours after 9/11 and impounded all the files relating to the school at the local police station; links to Govt agencies etc etc.

I'm not quite sure what to make of it all.
What I like about his writing (despite the gonzo Ed Sanders/Hunter Thompson style of journalism) is that he doesn't seem to draw huge overarching conclusions such as "the CIA did it", or "Atta was working for the DEA and double crossed them", he just states the 'facts' as he sees them. There appear to be lots of eyewitness accounts to back up his claims.

On the other hand, his site does link to David Icke's...hmmmm.

 

[TAE]

I never understood the whole thing about islamic fundamentalists allegedly drinking heavily.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

I never understood the whole thing about islamic fundamentalists allegedly drinking heavily.

Remember this would be american beer, which is practically non alcholic anyway.

 

[Yossarian]

A beer that looks like a beer, smells like a beer, tastes like piss, and possesses the intoxicating qualities of beer, but only in the most feeble manner? Such a thing would surely be an abomination in the eyes of Allah, as well as man…

 

[kyser_soze]

I never understood the whole thing about islamic fundamentalists allegedly drinking heavily.

Well I've never understood the thing about right wing Xtians who sit on child-protection committees having sexually explicit msg conversations with 16 year olds, but hey, hypocrisy exists!

Besides, if you were about to fly a plane into a building, wouldn't you want to get on one beforehand?

 

[scalyboy]

There was more than just Atta's fondness for alcohol. The particular flight training school in Venice Florida where he trained had been involved in a huge heroin smuggling bust - he seemed to be friendly with the owner of the school despite official denials. The owner was always strapped for cash until after 9/11 when he was suddently flush with money.

Plus Atta is said to have been a far more adept pilot than had been hitherto claimed - to the extent that he was permitted to accompany trainees, as the experienced co-pilot. Recall the discovery of a pilot's uniform in his car.

The FBI stated that he had left Venice at the beginning of 2001 - several witnesses refute this. But why would the authorities wish it be known that he had left?

If all these witness statements are true, it adds up to something odd, but what that is I'm not quite sure.

 

[Jazzz]

I never understood the whole thing about islamic fundamentalists allegedly drinking heavily.

It's not just the beer - his favourite food was pork chops, his girlfriend was a lingerie model, he liked strip clubs, and according to her...

'These guys had money flowing out their ass. They never seemed to run out of money. They had massive supplies of cocaine. Whenever they'd run out, they'd go over to the flight school. I followed them one day with Sabrina (another German friend of Atta's) to see where they were going, and saw them go into Florida Flight Training.'

How Islamic.

Not only that but...

"Three of the men identified as the hijackers in the attacks on Tuesday have the same names as alumni of American military schools, the authorities said today. The men were identified as Mohamed Atta, Abdulaziz al-Omari and Saeed al-Ghamdi.

The Defense Department said Mr. Atta had gone to the International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama; Mr. al-Omari to the Aerospace Medical School at Brooks Air Force Base in Texas; and Mr. al-Ghamdi to the Defense Language Institute at the Presidio in Monterey, Calif."

New York Times, September 15th 2001

Islamic terrorist ringleader, or patsy?

 

[DexterTCN]

It was a cover, wasn't it? A non-fundy lifestyle.

 

[editor]

It was a cover, wasn't it? A non-fundy lifestyle.

Waaay too obvious and muundane an answer for Jazzz!

 

[Jazzz]

• 3. According to Keller, Atta loved pork chops.

• 15. On September 8th, 2001 --the Saturday before the 9/11 attacks, at a bar called Shuckums in Ft Lauderdale, Atta and two companions got drunk. The FBI showed up at the bar just 12 hours after the attack with pictures of two of them, one Atta, saying only “they were on the plane and passed away.” Manager Tony Amos and bartender Patricia Idrissi identified both. Manager Amos said they’d gotten "wasted," Atta drank Stoli vodka for three straight hours. Atta blasphemed: "F*ck God!" he’s said to have cursed."

• 38. A former Huffman executive, speaking about the hijackers: "Early on I gleaned that these guys had government protection. They were let into this country for a specific purpose. It was a business deal."

• 39. The FBI visited the home of this executive just four hours after the attacks. The purpose has been not to investigate, but to intimidate him into silence. The man says his phones were bugged, and thinks pilots were "double agents." He quit the flight school fearing for his life, and claims he knows too much about Wally Hillier, saying he "has a family to think about."

from Mohamed Atta loved pork chops, and 49 other things you may not know

 

[editor]

The FBI visited the home of this executive just four hours after the attacks.

All that comes from a lengthy, and mainly unattributed, set of claims in a posting on a bulletin board made by an anonymous entity known as 'Minstrel Boy.'

Have you checked the credibility of his/her claims, or are you just blindly accepting anything that pushes your conspiracy buttons all over again?

 

[Jazzz]

The article consists of notes from Hopsicker's book, as stated, which is indeed the subject of the thread.

 

[editor]

The article consists of notes from Hopsicker's book, as stated, which is indeed the subject of the thread.

And the source for his claims is...?

 

[DexterTCN]

Waaay too obvious and muundane an answer for Jazzz!

You're the one that constantly argues with him, fanning the flames of each thread where you both post. Turning a 10 post thread into a 5 page odysi, oddyseu.....uddisy.....epic.

 

[editor]

You're the one that constantly argues with him, fanning the flames of each thread where you both post.

Not sure how simply asking for a source is "fanning the flames" but if there's nothing new being offered in this thread, then it'll go the same way as the other endlessly repeating 9/11 'discussions.'

 

[scalyboy]

The claim by Atta's alleged girlfriend that "these guys had money flowing out their ass" I wasn't too impressed with - I think the suggestion is that they were involved in heavy duty drug smuggling - but it's well-known that the hijackers had access to ample funds via wire transfers from overseas - so, yes, they would have a lot of cash - not suspicious in itself.

The claim that the FBI showed up at the flight training schools hours after the 9/11 attacks is more interesting to my mind. They would have had Atta's name from the passenger manifests but little else, unless they had already been watching him and knew of his connection to the Florida school. The only other possibility I can think of is that they found some material in his car which led them to the school. IIRC correctly the car contained (amongst other things) a pilot's uniform, a Quran, and some flight simulator manuals - could these last have been issued by the Florida school in question, and had their logo/name/address on the cover?

It depends I guess, on when the car was discovered - I think it was the night of 11th Sep but will try to clarify that. Again, IIRC, Hopsicker states that the FBI seized all the training school documents 18 hours after the attacks. But he also quotes a manager of the school who claims the Feds showed up 5 hours after the attacks. Hmmm.

There are a lot of witnesses on Hopsicker's site and in his book, but whether they can all be taken at face value...I have heard other witnesses (not Hopsicker's) claiming that they saw hijackers in Florida strip clubs on the night of the 10th Sep - this can't be right, as they must have been on the Esat Coast by then. Witnesses can be genuinely mistaken...but there are plenty of people in Venice Florida who remeber Atta etc, in bars and restaurants.

As regards the drinking and coke-taking, yes it could have been a deep cover, I think some have alluded to the concept of Takfir (sp.?) whereby one deceives one's enemies by means of seeming to be the opposite of that which you are?

Hopsicker never comes out and says it directly, but IMHO he hints that Atta and co. were involved in some sort of DEA/CIA sanctioned drug operation (whether surveillance or outright smuggling), but that secretly he was al-Queda and double crossed them.

It reminds of me of a fairly convincing argument put forward (in a Private Eye special some years ago) regarding the Lockerbie case - the DEA were permitting suitcases of drugs from the Middle East to bypass the normal security at Frankfurt airport and go straight onto planes - terrorists got wind of this operation, and used it to get a bomb on board...


Apologies for length!

 

[Blagsta]

It's not just the beer - his favourite food was pork chops, his girlfriend was a lingerie model, he liked strip clubs, and according to her...

'These guys had money flowing out their ass. They never seemed to run out of money. They had massive supplies of cocaine. Whenever they'd run out, they'd go over to the flight school. I followed them one day with Sabrina (another German friend of Atta's) to see where they were going, and saw them go into Florida Flight Training.'

How Islamic.

Not only that but...

"Three of the men identified as the hijackers in the attacks on Tuesday have the same names as alumni of American military schools, the authorities said today. The men were identified as Mohamed Atta, Abdulaziz al-Omari and Saeed al-Ghamdi.

The Defense Department said Mr. Atta had gone to the International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama; Mr. al-Omari to the Aerospace Medical School at Brooks Air Force Base in Texas; and Mr. al-Ghamdi to the Defense Language Institute at the Presidio in Monterey, Calif."

New York Times, September 15th 2001

Islamic terrorist ringleader, or patsy?

Human being in hypocrisy shock! Stop the presses!

 

[scalyboy]

Islamic terrorist ringleader, or patsy?

Jazzz, I take your point, but to my mind, if the US Govt/CIA/whoever wanted to set some innocent Middle Easterners up for 9/11, wouldn't they have been more likely to choose Iraqis, Afghans, or Syrians than 'friendly' Saudi and Egyptian nationals?

 

[scalyboy]

Human being in hypocrisy shock! Stop the presses!

Well, yes, but Hopsicker alleges a lot more than just the drinking, sex, drugging and pork chop loving. There's the question of why the FBI would state that Atta had left this particular school at the beginning of 2001 when several witnesses state the opposite. And their appearance at the school hours after the attacks. And the drug smuggling stuff.

Oh, and his girlfriend claims Atta had a great fondness for the Beastie Boys!!

 

[Blagsta]

tbh, I'm inclined to not believe a word he writes. Anyone who's website links to David Icke's is not to be trusted.

 

[scalyboy]

tbh, I'm inclined to not believe a word he writes. Anyone who's website links to David Icke's is not to be trusted.

Yes, not good, is it? I had my doubts when I saw that...the only thing in his defence I can think of is that mutual exchanges of site links would put his URL onto Icke's site, which is viewed by millions I understand, and he may have just been looking to boost hits.

But let's say he is not to be trusted - does that he mean he fabricated the interview with Amanda Keller (Atta's purported girlfriend)
Here - about half-way though the video - or was she fooling him maybe.

and all the quotes from Venice citizens with their eyewitness statements? Some here

I don't like the layout of his site (it's easier to follow his arguments in the book) and I don't particularly like his writing style. I especially don't like the fact that he links to David Icke's site! But, to my mind, Hopsicker has (or claims to have) undertaken proper investigative journalism by going to Florida and asking locals about Atta etc. This seems a very different kettle o fish than, for instance, looking at a photo of one of the planes, and claiming to see a pod attached. One is investigation, the other is just speculation.

 

[pk]

tbh, I'm inclined to not believe a word he writes. Anyone who's website links to David Icke's is not to be trusted.

Another Icke-supporting conspiranoid?
I think that sums up the credibility of this loony cunt... let me guess, there's an anti-semitic theory in there somewhere too...

 

[scalyboy]

... let me guess, there's an anti-semitic theory in there somewhere too...

No, not as far as I can see. Hopsicker's focus seems more to do with large-scale international drug smuggling. His other books concentrate on that area.

Have a look yourself, see what you think.

 

[WouldBe]

There's the question of why the FBI would state that Atta had left this particular school at the beginning of 2001 when several witnesses state the opposite.

I think quite a few Americans would be pissed off to know that a suspect had been allowed to spend months at a flight school and gain his pilots license only to then fly a commercial aircraft into the WTC. It would look better if Atta appeared to only have a few flying hours under his belt and it was more of a fluke that he hit the WTC.

Just possibly covering up FBI incompetance.

 

[Jazzz]

Jazzz, I take your point, but to my mind, if the US Govt/CIA/whoever wanted to set some innocent Middle Easterners up for 9/11, wouldn't they have been more likely to choose Iraqis, Afghans, or Syrians than 'friendly' Saudi and Egyptian nationals?

More the point, if they were 'friendly' Saudi nationals what on earth were they doing committing 9/11?

Far easier to hire someone from a country you are on friendly terms with. Didn't seem to matter to the end product, unless you consider the above question pertinent.

 

[Jazzz]

I think quite a few Americans would be pissed off to know that a suspect had been allowed to spend months at a flight school and gain his pilots license only to then fly a commercial aircraft into the WTC. It would look better if Atta appeared to only have a few flying hours under his belt and it was more of a fluke that he hit the WTC.

Just possibly covering up FBI incompetance.

Atta wasn't listed as one of the pilots, UIM.

 

[WouldBe]

Atta wasn't listed as one of the pilots, UIM.

You have previously claimed that Atta wasn't capable of flying the plane and that led to your remote control theory.

If Atta was one of the hyjackers and has his full pilots license why wouldn't he be one of the pilots?

 

[Jonti]

The Florida flight school business is mentioned in the Everybody's Gotto Learn Sometime video (and thread).

 

[scalyboy]

More the point, if they were 'friendly' Saudi nationals what on earth were they doing committing 9/11?

Far easier to hire someone from a country you are on friendly terms with. Didn't seem to matter to the end product, unless you consider the above question pertinent.

But surely if they were mere patsies, used to create a 'new Pearl Harbor' which would provide justification for the subsequent invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq (which I gather had already been planed prior to 9/11) - wouldn't it make more sense to use people from those 2 countries?

 

[Jazzz]

You have previously claimed that Atta wasn't capable of flying the plane and that led to your remote control theory.

If Atta was one of the hyjackers and has his full pilots license why wouldn't he be one of the pilots?

It wasn't Atta who supposedly flew into the Pentagon, astonishing the air traffic controllers but Hani Hanjour, the pilot who was forbidden to rent a single-engine Cessna and was described as 'not being able to fly at all'.

Atta is listed as having been on flight 11 (North Tower)