International Mens Day

[pengaleng]

Who doesn't have the expectation that someone (but not a particular person) will want to have sex (or be intimate) with them? If you're dismissive about this and dismissive about the effects of constant rejection or feeling unwanted, then I suggest you might be in a privileged position...

people in this position rarely see their own faults in the situation. I'd say you havent experienced someone elses persistent blind sighted entitlement over your body?

constant rejection sucks but you should look at why youre being rejected rather than expressing some kind of human right to get laid because it's not a thing when you can easily put on some porn and have a wank.

if you feel thats dismissive then so be it, I dont care, I dont think someone should fuck you just because you're feeling a bit horny that day - this is why marital rape got made illegal in like 95 or something

the problem with it is that it only considers one parties feelings - the one getting sexual gratification.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

people in this position rarely see their own faults in the situation. I'd say you havent experienced someone elses persistent blind sighted entitlement over your body?

constant rejection sucks but you should look at why youre being rejected rather than expressing some kind of human right to get laid because it's not a thing when you can easily put on some porn and have a wank.

if you feel thats dismissive then so be it, I dont care, I dont think someone should fuck you just because you're feeling a bit horny that day - this is why marital rape got made illegal in like 95 or something

the problem with it is that it only considers one parties feelings - the one getting sexual gratification.

It's not about the right to have sex/intimacy/closeness with a particular person. It's about the expectation that someone out there might find you desirable. I'm imagining most people feel they might be desirable to at least a small number of the opposite sex, yeah? If you've never felt utterly undesirable/unattractive, then it's hard to explain quite how it feels and the effect that it has on your mental health. As a man, (I think) it's worse, as we're expected to do the asking. Who's going to do any asking when one's confidence is at rock bottom and you're convinced you'll get a 'no'?

 

[pengaleng]

It's not about the right to have sex/intimacy/closeness with a particular person. It's about the expectation that someone out there might find you desirable. I'm imagining most people feel they might be desirable to at least a small number of the opposite sex, yeah? If you've never felt utterly undesirable/unattractive, then it's hard to explain quite how it feels and the effect that it has on your mental health. As a man, (I think) it's worse, as we're expected to do the asking. Who's going to do any asking when one's confidence is at rock bottom and you're convinced you'll get a 'no'?

you can have expectations that someone out there might find you desirable, but theres a massive problem in that the people finding you desirable arent generally the ideal fantasy people you want to be fucking or you dont want to be wasting years waiting - or compromising on your 'standards' which is where entitlement kicks in because everything is so now centric and fast moving with societal pressures like marriage, kids etc

 

[Vintage Paw]

It's not about the right to have sex/intimacy/closeness with a particular person. It's about the expectation that someone out there might find you desirable. I'm imagining most people feel they might be desirable to at least a small number of the opposite sex, yeah? If you've never felt utterly undesirable/unattractive, then it's hard to explain quite how it feels and the effect that it has on your mental health. As a man, (I think) it's worse, as we're expected to do the asking. Who's going to do any asking when one's confidence is at rock bottom and you're convinced you'll get a 'no'?

Imagine you're at some work's do. One of your colleagues brings along a mate. She's sat near you. Thing is, you find her really unattractive, and all night she's saying and doing things that are a massive turn-off. She's really not the sort of person you'd want to be friends with. What's more, across the room is Jan from accounting who you've always had a bit of a thing for and you're thinking about whether you should go up and say hi, ask her if she's enjoying herself tonight. But this lass who's sitting next to you, she slides a bit closer and she says, "so Johnny, do you fancy a snog?" or maybe she says, "hey Johnny, fancy going out for a coffee sometime?" and all you can think is god no.

Do you think this lass has the right to expect you to be attracted to her? Should you feel obliged to fancy her, and say yes, I'll go out with you despite thinking you're gross outside and in?

--

If you get rejected a lot, of course it's going to hurt. It hurts women too. Because newsflash, women get rejected plenty thanks. But where is the best use of your energy? In getting angry with women everywhere because how very dare they not give you a chance? Hardly.

 

[pengaleng]

everyone gets rejected, the ones to watch are the people who get angry about it, they aint good people.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

you can have expectations that someone out there might find you desirable, but theres a massive problem in that the people finding you desirable arent generally the ideal fantasy people you want to be fucking or you dont want to be wasting years waiting - or compromising on your 'standards' which is where entitlement kicks in because everything is so now centric and fast moving with societal pressures like marriage, kids etc

And what if you feel that literally no-one finds you or could find you desirable? (I don't think it's a terrible expectation that you should have some small amount of choice, rather than pair up with the first person that smiles at you.) If you're turning down ten people a year, you're probably too fussy. If you're turning down one person every two years, that hardly smacks of being fussy. If you can walk into a bar or go on a dating site and get lots of obvious interest, then be able to pick from several people, it's not an issue you're going to understand.

 

[pengaleng]

And what if you feel that literally no-one finds you or could find you desirable? (I don't think it's a terrible expectation that you should have some small amount of choice, rather than pair up with the first person that smiles at you.) If you're turning down ten people a year, you're probably too fussy. If you're turning down one person every two years, that hardly smacks of being fussy. If you can walk into a bar or go on a dating site and get lots of obvious interest, then be able to pick from several people, it's not an issue you're going to understand.

you have got all the choice and freedom in the world - read some books, get a hobby, go different places, start random conversations just for the sake of it, watch documentaries, spend time building yourself inspead of desperately clinging on to the idea that you dont have to put any effort in to be attractive to other people because you are delusional about other peoples relationships and constantly compare yourself - if you didnt then why the urgency and impossible standards?

acting like the beautiful people have it easy like they arent rejected, cheated on, get all the sex, love and affection they want, it's an unrealistic fantasy.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

you have got all the choice and freedom in the world - read some books, get a hobby, go different places, start random conversations just for the sake of it, watch documentaries, spend time building yourself inspead of desperately clinging on to the idea that you dont have to put any effort in to be attractive to other people because you are delusional about other peoples relationships and constantly compare yourself - if you didnt then why the urgency and impossible standards?

Thanks for the advice. It's not like I go away places, work, socialise, have loads of interests, or put effort into getting fit, etc.

 

[pengaleng]

Thanks for the advice. It's not like I go away places, work, socialise, have loads of interests, or put effort into getting fit, etc.

they can probably smell the desperation then.

moaning about how you cant get laid is so attractive.

 

[pengaleng]

I prescribe the entire full series of 'first dates'

a programme on 4OD which I am fairly certain WILL help your dating game.

observe and learn.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

they can probably smell the desperation then.

moaning about how you cant get laid is so attractive.

Nope. Not something I do publicly. I just don't care anymore and don't bother asking. It's not really about just getting laid either. As I said, I don't think you understand this at all - so here the discussion ends.

 

[pengaleng]

Nope. Not something I do publicly. I just don't care anymore and don't bother asking. It's not really about just getting laid either. As I said, I don't think you understand this at all - so here the discussion ends.

you dont think I understand you been rejected so much you hate yourself? thats pretty clear.

just watch the first dates without feeling bitter and with an open mind - if you have that much difficulty then it will definitely help - you will learn that everyone is insecure as fuck, everyone gets rejected and everyone just wants to be loved.

stop being a sour old pessimistic cunt cus that aint attractive either.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

you dont think I understand you been rejected so much you hate yourself? thats pretty clear.

just watch the first dates without feeling bitter and with an open mind - if you have that much difficulty then it will definitely help - you will learn that everyone is insecure as fuck, everyone gets rejected and everyone just wants to be loved.

stop being a sour old cunt.

Nae offence, but your advice is pretty much of the quality of telling a depressed person just to cheer up. What if you wouldn't ask someone out on a date in the first place because you're 99.9999% they'd say no and you really can't picture in your mind the sort of person who might like you?

 

[pengaleng]

Nae offence, but your advice is pretty much of the quality of telling a depressed person just to cheer up. What if you wouldn't ask someone out on a date in the first place because you're 99.9999% they'd say no and you really can't picture in your mind the sort of person who might like you?

no it's not, depression is an illness, you can learn to be more confident.

and thats the answer to the question too which is your problem no one elses - you only gain confidence by doing

you talk like I dont know what it's like to be nervous of asking someone out when you aint sure whether they like you

 

[Johnny Vodka]

no it's not, depression is an illness, you can learn to be more confident.

and thats the answer to the question too

Say maybe depressive/anxious thoughts feed into you lack of confidence? If your confidence really is low and has been stamped on enough, or maybe you've never had confidence, it's not something you can get by clicking your fingers.

 

[pengaleng]

Say maybe depressive/anxious thoughts feed into you lack of confidence? If your confidence really is low and has been stamped on enough, or maybe you've never had confidence, it's not something you can get by clicking your fingers.

no but you can work on it, youy dont just go from being proper nervous one day to being ok to ask someone out and not give a fuck if they say no - it takes time and effort and patience which a lot of people wont give cus they are entitled

you aint happy with yourself if you aint happy with someones no

like come on, self responsibility?? what happened to that?

short of telling you to man the fuck up I dunno what else to suggest.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

no but you can work on it, youy dont just go from being proper nervous one day to being ok to ask someone out and not give a fuck if they say no - it takes time and effort and patience which a lot of people wont give cus they are entitled

you aint happy with yourself if you aint happy with someones no

And your experience of these issues is what? Or are you just quoting from the bumper book of advice?

 

[pengaleng]

And your experience of these issues is what? Or are you just quoting from the bumper book of advice?

god you are such a martyr.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

god you are such a martyr.

Have a good night pengaleng.

 

[pengaleng]

Have a good night pengaleng.

laters

good luck with your mediocre dating cus you refuse to accept that maybe yer the problem and dont put any effort in

byeeeee felicia

 

[krtek a houby]

Say maybe depressive/anxious thoughts feed into you lack of confidence? If your confidence really is low and has been stamped on enough, or maybe you've never had confidence, it's not something you can get by clicking your fingers.

Depends. When I was much younger and very much single, I had no confidence. And I sent out negative vibes. People would pick up on it and I found it hard to date. People found me too depressing (and yes, I was depressed) and that just turned into a vicious circle. I didn't click my fingers but I grew into myself, donned my mental body armour and projected good vibes. Not mindless optimism but a sense that I was worth something. Things became easier. I appreciate that of course everyone's different but a friend of mine (now in his late 50s) is constantly telling women how ugly he is and never gets a girlfriend. And I've had a few female friends tell me that this puts them off.

 

[pengaleng]

why would you wanna fuck someone whos sitting there moaning about how no one finds them attractive - these people dont fucking help themselves do they


what do they want?? pity?? jesus christ.

 

[pengaleng]

Depends. When I was much younger and very much single, I had no confidence. And I sent out negative vibes. People would pick up on it and I found it hard to date. People found me too depressing (and yes, I was depressed) and that just turned into a vicious circle. I didn't click my fingers but I grew into myself, donned my mental body armour and projected good vibes. Not mindless optimism but a sense that I was worth something. Things became easier.

you grew up - something johnny has yet to do.

you put in work and now yer a champion.

 

[krtek a houby]

why would you wanna fuck someone whos sitting there moaning about how no one finds them attractive - these people dont fucking help themselves do they

It's a confidence thing, self worth and all that. I don't know what's going on in his mind and I've suggested once or twice that he could be a bit more positive but he doesn't do positive much.

 

[krtek a houby]

you grew up - something johnny has yet to do.

Shit, I'm still 21 in my mind who wants to grow up?

 

[pengaleng]

It's a confidence thing, self worth and all that. I don't know what's going on in his mind and I've suggested once or twice that he could be a bit more positive but he doesn't do positive much.

yes and confidence can be faked, most people fake it. no one wants to be with a whiny sack of shit - even some of the ugliest people can be very sexy because they have confidence

 

[krtek a houby]

yes and confidence can be faked, most people fake it. no one wants to be with a whiny sack of shit - even some of the ugliest people can be very sexy because they have confidence

And some of the "sexiest" people can be very ugly, underneath.

 

[pengaleng]

And some of the "sexiest" people can be very ugly, underneath.

tru say

 

[mauvais]

Nae offence, but your advice is pretty much of the quality of telling a depressed person just to cheer up. What if you wouldn't ask someone out on a date in the first place because you're 99.9999% they'd say no and you really can't picture in your mind the sort of person who might like you?

If the discussion pengaleng has been having with you is misplaced, I don't understand what you want.

The idea that someone out there might like you is a very different thing to either an expectation of the world at large to provide that person, or the expectation of any particular person in it to fulfil that role.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

It is a shame when anyone feels unloved and incapable of achieving that state. Given that it's international men's day tomorrow, maybe it would be a good idea to look at the pressures on men that put them into impossible positions here; say, the contradiction that is reinforced by traditional masculine roles, where the only permitted way of experiencing affection is through hetero romance (all same-gender relationships being mandated as competitive) but where even romantic relationships are sabotaged, with expectations put on them that a "real man" will express dominance thereby destroying any possibility of actual human contact. That a proper man deserves and has a right to this broken contact as a sign of their power. The tacit acknowledgement that the strong man role is unsustainable (hence "needing a woman") but the complete refusal to acknowledge the problems with it.

Why, it's almost as if boys are brought up with a broken series of expectations that could result in them being miserable and violent as their lives go on, and teaching their sons the same.

But no, sacrifice and rites of passage blah blah.