Insurance company CEO assassinated in New York

[Orang Utan]

He may get acquitted of murder as this person seems to have been

Daniel Penny found not guilty in NY subway chokehold death of Jordan Neely

The case sparked weeks of protests and reignited national debate over race, mental illness, and public safety in the US.

www.bbc.co.uk

Just read this article, which makes some good points comparing reactions to both cases:

Peaceful Solutions

On respectable and profitable human-suffering engines, the murder of a CEO, propriety in a land where life has been cheapened, and some good news for those who seek peaceful solutions.

www.the-reframe.com

 

[Yossarian]

From the Wikipedia entry for Thompson:

Under his leadership, UnitedHealthcare's profits increased from $12 billion in 2021 to $16 billion in 2023. At the time of Thompson's death, the company was the largest health insurer in the United States.

...Reports of increasing rates of prior authorization denials prompted investigations by ProPublica and the United States Senate, investigations which were described as a "stain" on Thompson's time of leadership by Fortune. The Senate report, published by the United States Senate Homeland Security Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, focused in particular on denials for Medicare Advantage plans serving the elderly and disabled. The investigation revealed that in 2019, UHC's prior authorization denial rate was 8%. He became CEO in 2021, and by 2022 the rate of denial had increased to 22.7%. For both Medicare and non-Medicare claims, UHC declines claims at a rate which is double the industry average

Those statistics represent a tsunami of misery and death directly caused by Thompson - there's probably zero chance of any of it being considered evidence admissible at trial but I think Mangione would stand a good chance of acquittal if a few dozen people involved in the most egregious cases were allowed to testify

 

[littlebabyjesus]

He may get acquitted of murder as this person seems to have been

Daniel Penny found not guilty in NY subway chokehold death of Jordan Neely

The case sparked weeks of protests and reignited national debate over race, mental illness, and public safety in the US.

www.bbc.co.uk

I don't quite see the parallels.

 

[klang]

You know 'Logan's Run' when people get killed once they reach the age of 30? Imagine a world where people got killed if they accumulated more than a pre-determined amount of money and didn't share it?

Would society be better for it? Potential for an interesting novel there.

If the American health system wasn't so fucked up, 'Breaking Bad' would have never been made.

I feel really conflicted about this. I hate that I like what this young man did. Murder is deplorable and yet, there's a weird sense of justice in there. CEOs make way too much money, and to make this much money and profit from something that should be available to all, without the risk of bankrupcy, is deplorable too. Worse still, to deny the health care that people pay expensive premiums for? It's about time something got done about it.

If this had been a war, then a soldier has just killed an enemy general. He'd be a hero. I think he kinda is. The American health system seems to be as evil as warmongering - in the way it's driven by profits and doesn't care about people's lives.

I get your sentiment but I reserve judgement until I know more about his motives.

 

[Saul Goodman]

In a statement, UnitedHealth Group said it had received many messages of support from "patients, consumers, health care professionals, associations, government officials and other caring people".

PMs of support.

 

[klang]

PMs of support.

patients, consumers, health care professionals, associations, government officials and other caring people".

Yep, exactly the sort of people who usually write to me when I'm the pile-on-ee.

 

[PTK]

You know 'Logan's Run' when people get killed once they reach the age of 30? Imagine a world where people got killed if they accumulated more than a pre-determined amount of money and didn't share it?

Would society be better for it? Potential for an interesting novel there.

If the American health system wasn't so fucked up, 'Breaking Bad' would have never been made.

I feel really conflicted about this. I hate that I like what this young man did. Murder is deplorable and yet, there's a weird sense of justice in there. CEOs make way too much money, and to make this much money and profit from something that should be available to all, without the risk of bankrupcy, is deplorable too. Worse still, to deny the health care that people pay expensive premiums for? It's about time something got done about it.

If this had been a war, then a soldier has just killed an enemy general. He'd be a hero. I think he kinda is. The American health system seems to be as evil as warmongering - in the way it's driven by profits and doesn't care about people's lives.

You make some good points, but the novel plot idea has a big hole in it. If the state could leglislate that people with too much wealth could be killed by the state, then it could legislate that they pay very high tax instead, which would be a much better solution, as how the money was distributed would not be the choice of the rich person, but the choice of state, and therefore more likely to be fairly allocated.

 

[Saul Goodman]

You make some good points, but the novel plot idea has a big hole in it. If the state could leglislate that people with too much wealth could be killed by the state, then it could legislate that they pay very high tax instead, which would be a much better solution, as how the money was distributed would not be the choice of the rich person, but the choice of state, and therefore more likely to be fairly allocated.

Where's the fun in that?

 

[two sheds]

Well yeah. Amidst all the levity it’s probably worth remembering that this guy has ruthlessly murdered a father of two,

Pah well Ceaucescu was ruthlessly murdered despite leaving three loving children and (briefly) a loving wife. You wishy washy namby pamby lefty bleeding heart liberal types

 

[brogdale]

Pah well Ceaucescu was ruthlessly murdered despite leaving three loving children and (briefly) a loving wife. You wishy washy namby pamby lefty bleeding heart liberal types

Exactly, putting the fear into these sociopathic CEOs can only be a good thing; fuck 'em

 

[Yossarian]

I'm still surprised he got caught the way he did - if he had maybe skipped shaving for a few days and done something about his eyebrows I don't think many people would have given him a second look, he was reportedly wearing a blue surgical mask in the McDonald's, as he was in the taxi photo released by police, which would have been a much bigger giveaway than revealing his lower face

 

[moochedit]

Regardless of anyone’s wealth, unless there’s a diminished responsibility thing going on, the fact that this whole gig seems to have been highly planned and executed and there’s clear video evidence of him pumping the bloke full of 9mm bullets, would probably rule out manslaughter.

You are probably right that he'll get the book thrown at him On the other hand (assumming he pleads not guilty) it needs all 12 jury members to convict in the states. You only need 1 awkward one

 

[andysays]

I don't quite see the parallels.

I suspect Elpenor was indulging in a bit of irony.

But there's a significant difference between the two cases in that the CEO shooting appears to be a deliberate pre-planned assassination, whereas the other one wasn't, and can be portrayed by the defence as an unfortunate accident

 

[baldrick]

You are probably right that he'll get the book thrown at him On the other hand (assumming he pleads not guilty) it needs all 12 jury members to convict in the states. You only need 1 awkward one

A 12 angry men scenario

 

[Spymaster]

I suspect Elpenor was indulging in a bit of irony.

But there's a significant difference between the two cases in that the CEO shooting appears to be a deliberate pre-planned assassination, whereas the other one wasn't, and can be portrayed by the defence as an unfortunate accident

Reading elsewhere, I think the jury in the case of the choke hold fella might have had reasonable doubt about whether he actually caused the death because the defence presented expert witnesses who said the dead bloke had underlying conditions that could have killed him.

 

[two sheds]

Not that this could be recommended of course (didn't the English system try to prosecute someone holding a placard up saying similar outside the trial of an environmental protester?)

 

[brogdale]

propaganda of the deed.

Exactly; the Aleksandr Ulyanov of our times!

 

[cupid_stunt]

Not that this could be recommended of course (didn't the English system try to prosecute someone holding a placard up saying similar outside the trial of an environmental protester?)

Oi, you can't post videos on this thread.

 

[emanymton]

I suspect Elpenor was indulging in a bit of irony.

But there's a significant difference between the two cases in that the CEO shooting appears to be a deliberate pre-planned assassination, whereas the other one wasn't, and can be portrayed by the defence as an unfortunate accident

Odd things can happen in the US with the plea bargin system though.

Much lower level but for traffic crimes people can plead guilty to a crime of allowing someone to drive their car unlicensed (or something like that), when it was them driving! But is has lesser penalties than just being convicted of driving without a licence, so they plead guilty instead of going to court.

But I can't see them offering a lower charge in this case as it seems pretty clear.

 

[two sheds]

With all the old pollution from car exhausts he might have had a previous lead-poisoning condition.

 

[Spymaster]

You are probably right that he'll get the book thrown at him On the other hand (assumming he pleads not guilty) it needs all 12 jury members to convict in the states. You only need 1 awkward one

I'd very much doubt it. Nobody with any sense is seriously going to want this guy to walk free, despite who the victim was.

Shooting people on the streets because you don't like what they do is a bad thing.

 

[Yossarian]

Reading elsewhere, I think the jury in the case of the choke hold fella might have had reasonable doubt about whether he actually caused the death because the defence presented expert witnesses who said the dead bloke had underlying conditions that could have killed him.

The jurors apparently considered this "expert" more credible than New York City's medical examiner

Asked about the purple discoloration in Neely’s face, which Harris had explained as a sign of “congested veins” resulting from “a sufficient amount of pressure” on Neely’s neck, Chundru replied that perhaps Neely had a sun tan

How Daniel Penny Was Found Not Guilty in a Subway Killing That Divided New York

The trial over the death of Jordan Neely, which made Penny a right-wing cause célèbre, became a flash point in the debate over crime and vigilantism in big cities.

www.newyorker.com

 

[moochedit]

I'd very much doubt it. Nobody with any sense is seriously going to want this guy to walk free, despite who the victim was.

Shooting people on the streets because you don't like what they do is a bad thing.

Shooting people is his constitutional right god dammit

 

[moochedit]

Never been on a jury myself but in practice i suspect most juries have one or two loud mouthed dominent members who decide the verdict and the rest go along with what they think so they can go home. Unless a FOTL type is on there, he is fucked

 

[emanymton]

You are probably right that he'll get the book thrown at him On the other hand (assumming he pleads not guilty) it needs all 12 jury members to convict in the states. You only need 1 awkward one

That doesn't get you off though, just means the process takes longer.

 

[moochedit]

That doesn't get you off though, just means the process takes longer.

It can do if the awkward one is determined. Over here they allow 10-2 verdicts in these situations to break the deadlock but not over there. Could order a retrial with a new jury though.

 

[moochedit]

I'm still surprised he got caught the way he did - if he had maybe skipped shaving for a few days and done something about his eyebrows I don't think many people would have given him a second look, he was reportedly wearing a blue surgical mask in the McDonald's, as he was in the taxi photo released by police, which would have been a much bigger giveaway than revealing his lower face


View attachment 454425

Wants his big day in court?

 

[two sheds]

I doubt it would work in American prisons but he might be hoping for free treatment for his pre-existing condition.

 

[Orang Utan]

I'm still surprised he got caught the way he did - if he had maybe skipped shaving for a few days and done something about his eyebrows I don't think many people would have given him a second look, he was reportedly wearing a blue surgical mask in the McDonald's, as he was in the taxi photo released by police, which would have been a much bigger giveaway than revealing his lower face


View attachment 454425

I foresee an Oscar for a Tremblay or a Chaloumet in the near future

 

[emanymton]

It can do if the awkward one is determined. Over here they allow 10-2 verdicts in these situations to break the deadlock but not over there. Could order a retrial with a new jury though.

Which they would do so he just ends up with more time served.

Maybe he could get am offer to plea to a lesser charge between trials? I'm assuming an offer can be made at any time.

Interesting thing about plea deals. The judge doesn't have to accept them, they can impose a different sentence and as you just plead guilty you have no right to appeal if they add a few extra years on.