Industrial music and its relationship(??) to fascism

[ska invita]

re the mens rights bit, she is writing a book on the subject and the clip i DID watch, looks like a pretty traditional take on masculinity from a feminist perspective
..also supposedly her liking/appreciation of Death in June and Laibach goes back a long way, and isnt some kind of recent turn

 

[chilango]

Are Laibach as dodge as Death in June now then ?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Are Laibach as dodge as Death in June now then ?

Nah. Death In June have links to actual fash (as their member Tony Wakeford was a member of the NF) and fashy poseurs like Boyd Rice. Also the main DIJ guy has made a bunch of unpleasant statements Who Makes the Nazis?: Queers to shut down Death In June in San Francisco on September 13th / DIJ exposed by queer anti-fascist

But there is an argument that Laibach's totalitarian aesthetics are now past their sell-by date.

 

[chilango]

Nah. Death In June have links to actual fash (as their member Tony Wakeford was a member of the NF) and fashy poseurs like Boyd Rice. Also the main DIJ guy has made a bunch of unpleasant statements Who Makes the Nazis?: Queers to shut down Death In June in San Francisco on September 13th / DIJ exposed by queer anti-fascist

But there is an argument that Laibach's totalitarian aesthetics are now past their sell-by date.

Yeah I was aware of DiJ links, but had always heard that Laibach were ok on that front.

Now, Rammstein, was listening to Mein Land the other day and my rudimentary German couldn't figure out if they're flirting with the dark side a bit too much.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Yeah I was aware of DiJ links, but had always heard that Laibach were ok on that front.

Now, Rammstein, was listening to Mein Land the other day and my rudimentary German couldn't figure out if they're flirting with the dark side a bit too much.

Rammstein always seemed too boring to check out... it's just rock 'n' roll innit?

 

[chilango]

Rammstein always seemed too boring to check out... it's just rock 'n' roll innit?

Gym music.

 

[Dragnet]

I'll have to have a watch of the video when I'm back from work, but I will say, I didn't expect the person who wrote One Dimensional Woman to end up hanging about with these oddballs.

 

[Dom Traynor]

I googled her as I thought I knew the name and was trying to work out where I knew her from and I'm sure my ex shared a flat with her for six months in 2008. Did she live in Maida Vale?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Sure enough, ten minutes into this panel discussion on "cancel culture" including Nina Power, a young man is defending Boyd Rice. How awful it is that an art show with his work was cancelled and who can really know what is in his mind is he a nazi or is it "performative" and gosh someone involved was Jewish.

Cancel Culture: A Roundtable Discussion with Krist Gruijthuijsen, Mathieu Malouf, and Nina Power

(Spiked magazine seems to be different from the UK Spiked)

For those at the back, Boyd Rice described himself as "an occult fascist" and appeared on "Race and Reason" the cable TV show of Tom Metzger of the White Aryan Resistance. According to his former partner Lisa Carver's autobiography he is a wife-beater also.

But apparently his paintings are nice and it's not like he was going to make political speeches at the gallery etc.

And Nina is off on Laibach again. We shouldn't be afraid to exploring these things, there should be dialogue we shouldn't isolate ourselves etc etc.

 

[mx wcfc]

Are Laibach as dodge as Death in June now then ?

I don't know Laibach well (seen a couple of You Tube vids) but one of the best lefties I know is a big, big fan. Can't see him being a fan if they were the slightest bit dodgy.

 

[killer b]

it's a bit of a strawman talking about Laibach in the same breath as DiJ or Boyd Rice isn't it?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

it's a bit of a strawman talking about Laibach in the same breath as DiJ or Boyd Rice isn't it?

It is definitely used in a very lazy way as shorthand for "dressing up as nazis is OK because Laibach are very camp and did some great cover versions".

They are probably OK yes but I am sure some people who like them just because they want to do fash cosplay. I don't think that is Laibach's fault particularly and it is a misreading of what I think they are trying to do. Whereas Death In June's Doug P is precisely someone who is sexually aroused by nazi cosplay, at best.

I just think that it is all fancy dress now and is not helpful or subversive, but I am not the best person to tell people what to wear...

 

[ska invita]

(Spiked magazine seems to be different from the UK Spiked)

ah good, thats one less worry

 

[Brainaddict]

I watched the beginning of the Nina Power video and what surprised me was that she criticised Me Too for being too about victimisation. Firstly I thought the critique is off because Me Too is part of a much wider feminist movement that is not just about victimhood, and within that wider movement surely it's fine to point out that some women (women who want to talk about it) become victims of male power with some regularity. But what was more shocking was seeing her making this critique knowing it wasn't to an audience of feminist comrades but to an audience of anti-feminists who probably already hated Me Too for their own misogynist reasons. That made me feel really uneasy, like she's lost any kind of sense of solidarity, perhaps because she feels too screwed over by 'the left'. I can understand being upset about being caught up in the TERF wars, but it feels like she's seriously lost perspective.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Brainaddict yes and especially weird when that critique is followed by her thoughts on men being victimised.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

I'll have to have a watch of the video when I'm back from work, but I will say, I didn't expect the person who wrote One Dimensional Woman to end up hanging about with these oddballs.

i did. this whole liberal university culture and music, their shared values, even to an extent the wire, they are far more comfortable with intellectual evola types than rudeboys, or heaven forbid black and brown people. i wouldn't say they are all racist but a lot of them try to cover up that they think most black music is 'jungle savage' music. which of course itself is racist.

It's why I never really liked k-punk, look at the has hip hop been aesthetically brutalised thread on dissensus. straight out of 1960s. he calls hip hop a form of capitalist realism, but somehow post-punk is not.

And you know i have some sympathy with the view that hip hop has become more conservative over the years, definitely I do but

Well fine, go into a whiteboy backpacker rap echo chamber then. as a cultural critic you should have been far more perceptive. ultimately all music is capitalist realism according to ur bizarre metric.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

The Quietus | Features | Wolves In The Sheep Pen: Fascism & The Czech Underground

Some more Quietus stuff, although more Black Metal (and more of the same stuff about ambiguity tbh).

 

[Fozzie Bear]

What’s yr take on Evola? Some very late words on Nina Power’s recent stances

 

[DaveCinzano]

Not strictly in line with the thread topic, but similar vein, about a band featuring the former frontman from crustpunk group Amebix:

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/amebixvoivod-offshoot-tau-cross-part-ways-with-relapse-records/

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/relaps...ntly-thanked-holocaust-denier-gerard-menuhin/

Relapse label manager Rennie Jaffe has now given an official statement on why they cut ties with the band, saying that it stemmed from the liner notes of Messengers of Deception thanking Gerard Menuhin, a writer and Holocaust denier who published the 2015 book Tell the Truth and Shame the Devil, which calls the Holocaust the “biggest lie in history.”

 

[Limerick Red]

The bloke who got a fireball in the face trying to touch a synagogue was described by ITV as a folk singer? Tristan Morgan? any connection to any of this stuff?

 

[Idris2002]

Yeah I was aware of DiJ links, but had always heard that Laibach were ok on that front.

Now, Rammstein, was listening to Mein Land the other day and my rudimentary German couldn't figure out if they're flirting with the dark side a bit too much.

Rammstein always seemed too boring to check out... it's just rock 'n' roll innit?

Leipzig museum has an exhibition on the "German dream". . . and also on its nightmares. A little room curtained off from the main exhibit has that Rammstein video (the new one, with a black woman playing Germania) playing on a loop, on a monitor surrounded by bits of old war propganda, the RAF wanted poster, the NSU wanted poster. . .

And I'm really, really not sure about it. My initial reaction was that they were saying "there's something fucking wrong with us". . . but in hindsight, I still can't make up my mind about it. The scene where the band are in KZ uniforms and are being hanged in the camp at Peenemunde (a V2 takes off in the following scene) was so aestheticized that it was like a fucking Benetton advert.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

The bloke who got a fireball in the face trying to touch a synagogue was described by ITV as a folk singer? Tristan Morgan? any connection to any of this stuff?

Not heard of him but good spot. Will see if anything turns up.

 

[Bun]

Went under the name Arland Bran. Had a track played by Aryan Radio and his name came up mentioned on a runic volk blog that is invite only.

 

[Limerick Red]

Ive twice met Arland Bran and was very honoured when he gave me a self-recorded CD that contained several of his own compositions - for they are excellent! Arland is himself a wanderer - like Woden, whom he follows, so I'm never sure if I'll meet him again so may not share a mead horn with him again! If you like the new styles of Fashwave, Electronica and the more traditional neo-folk genre's you will enjoy his music - and by luck I found many of his songs online today. Please put some time aside from the hustle and bustle of modern life and take a moment to listen to some music that will speak to your Aryan Soul! Remember - his work is his own recordings and done on a home computer, not in an expensive studio. Below are some of my favourites - but you can find all his works -here-

That was the Cached version of the site

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Fashwave? Is that a self-described genre?

There's less of the studied ambiguity about that at least.

 

[killer b]

Vaguely remember reading something about it a bit ago, I believe it is 'real', after a fashion.

 

[Idris2002]

Ive twice met Arland Bran and was very honoured when he gave me a self-recorded CD that contained several of his own compositions - for they are excellent! Arland is himself a wanderer - like Woden, whom he follows, so I'm never sure if I'll meet him again so may not share a mead horn with him again! If you like the new styles of Fashwave, Electronica and the more traditional neo-folk genre's you will enjoy his music - and by luck I found many of his songs online today. Please put some time aside from the hustle and bustle of modern life and take a moment to listen to some music that will speak to your Aryan Soul! Remember - his work is his own recordings and done on a home computer, not in an expensive studio. Below are some of my favourites - but you can find all his works -here-

That was the Cached version of the site

"share a mead horn". The sad, useless, pathetic wankers.

 

[rekil]

Miller and Power suing for libel. Little bit anti-freespeech snowflake.

Edgelords with thin skins: on the difficulty of free speech absolutism and “the right to discuss ideas”

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Seem to be fairly active with it too.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

In others news Andrew Weatherall played a Death In June track on one of his recent NTS shows which was crushingly disappointing for me.