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Industrial music and its relationship(??) to fascism

killer b said:
They've all got day jobs apart from a few of the big boys. I bet Douglas P works for the DWP.
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I think a lot of the big lads got some hefty cheques back in the World Serpent Days. Plus their own mailorder/merch.

It was rumoured that Tibet bought his first house with one and of course Steve Stapleton hoofed it to Ireland on the back of that Soliloquy for Lilith boxset. (Plus Tibet obviously comes from money anyway)

Coil were subsidised by Sleazy doing adverts for airlines and McDonalds.

Some of the 2nd division ones did OK out of property.

P-Orridge was always a bit hand to mouth but certainly never had a job.

Bower is on benefits afaik.

Gary from Ramleh was/is some kind of legal clerk.

Boyd Rice scrounges off him mum, friends and unfortunate girlfriends.

Cold Spring has been Justin's primary source of income since the early 90s afaik.
 
In a way I'd kind of hate to see them go down, but I've had several testy exchanges with people and promoters over Cold Spring in the past and everyone seems blind to the problem.
Always "he's a nice guy, he's not political" and "look Z'ev was happy to be on the label - it can't be all that bad"
they seem to be trading increasingly on stuff that's just one step away from bootlegs of obscure recordings by better known artists these days as well...
 
butchersapron said:
It's proper shit. Then you start asking hang on, maybe coil were like that.
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they didn't bang on about it much, for whatever reason, but last time I was having this chat about how Coil never seemed to get pressed on their more dubious associations a mate produced an interview with Sleazy where was he was completely clear that they distanced themselves from Boyd Rice as he became more stridently right wing and those ideas were nothing they wanted any part of and that he personally found them ridiculous and harmful.

but yeah, it's hardly something they made it easy to be sure of
 
Not sure what it’s got to do with industrial music but Nina has started hanging out with a couple of dodgy people. Also has apparently made some comments that some people felt were transphobic (which i’ve not seen).

That blog post is anonymous, weird and doesn’t provide evidence for many of its claims though.
 
There was reference to her praising death in June in the blog and she writes for the wire so it seemed the appropriate place...
 
Yeah fair point.

It’s a tedious 90 minute video and she does say at the end of it that DIJ and Laibach do useful stuff interrogating totalitarian aesthetics. This is part of a wider discussion including a dismissal of far right groups using “plausible deniability” as a defence mechanism.

This is obviously bollocks and I found it quite troubling.
 
edit: just finished watching all of that, they’re like edgy sixth-form students. Somewhat surprised at NP hanging out on there, last time I heard her was a talk she gave about police brutality, although that was a while ago.
 
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well the k-punk lot were oversold. always less interesting than those championing them made them out to be. yeah heresy in the london left but I'm not writing about eco grime for red bull lol. never speak ill of the dead but that much i think is true...

Reynolds is my guy.
 
How tawdry. A Colin Wilson phase in your middle age rather than when you're a 14 year old jitter. Still I expect these types never had the normal teenage years. Being gifted like.

Reminds me of when my dad started taking e and acid in his 50s because he read about in my nme.
 
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butchersapron said:
How tawdry. A Colin Wilson phase in your middle age rather than when you're a 14 year old jitter. Still I expect these types never had the normal teenage years. Being gifted like.

Reminds me of when my dad started taking e and acid in his 50s because he read about in my nme.
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My uncle did this when I was 16. He turned up at my folks house on a Sunday morning all fucked and wearing tie-dye trousers - spent the next hour telling me out of the corner of his mouth how fucked he was while my parents pretended not to notice.
 
crossthebreeze said:
YouTube just suggested to me a DIJ remix by I Hate Models -from 2016 also
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I hate I hate models (lol.) some people wanted to take the ebm/trance resurrection too far and this is what we were left with. should have revived more freestyle and 80s miami electro but hey that's just me. state of techno 2019.
 
Fozzie Bear said:
Not sure what it’s got to do with industrial music but Nina has started hanging out with a couple of dodgy people. Also has apparently made some comments that some people felt were transphobic (which i’ve not seen).

That blog post is anonymous, weird and doesn’t provide evidence for many of its claims though.
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Well I've been down the rabbit hole of reading the open letter and Nina's two responses (in full!)...the video is unwatchable (cringey and mumbly). So based on that....I'm not believing that she has done a political 180 - the "turned on her heal" she is accused of. I see no sign of that.

But I would like to know a bit more precisely what is going on here though.

Regarding the industrial music thing (of which i know nothing and have barely scraped a look at this thread) which troubled Fozzie is she being naive, or is it worse than that?

Re: TERF accusation - doesn't seem to be much in that - but I know it doesn't take much in some quarters.
This is her account - which doesn't trouble me any
But you are no doubt wondering by now why I have this reputation as a TERF. It is true that I have said things in private disagreeing with the current understanding of gender (as innate) in favour of the second-wave feminist idea that gender is imposed upon sex, and that gender roles are generally damaging and harmful to boys and girls and men and women, and I hold in general, as many feminists and some trans activists also do, a gender abolitionist position, i.e., that I would simply like everyone to feel free to be, wear and love whoever they would like without fear of or actual social punishment or internal shame. To feel unfree because of expectations that one must behave in such and such a way because one is a girl or a boy, or a man or a woman, is, it seems to me, a core diagnosis of the second wave feminist project, and this insight is reflected in those periods of history where feminists and gay rights come together to oppose stereotypical expectations.

It is obviously not good for anyone, or for society as a whole, to feel ashamed about their body, who they are, or who they love. We could wonder collectively how to address very widespread feelings of bodily self-alienation, particularly among young people – when I was at school in what I am sure was a common experience for many, girls would cut their arms and legs and lots of girls and a few boys had eating disorders. We can ask a general question about why do human beings often feel so separated and distanced from their bodies? How can we reunite people with their bodies? Is it possible or desirable to attempt this? If hormones and surgery are the only way of doing that, then that’s one answer, but maybe there are other ways of dealing with dysphoria and bodily and mental suffering.

I know as I write this, though, that this will be read as a denial of or even a hatred for trans people, and people will say that I couldn’t possibly understand how others feel, and that I am denying the existential specificity and material reality of trans lives. I wish it were possible to somehow have a conversation that didn’t look like I or others were doing this. Is it possible? I don’t know. Do I want to cause harm to anyone? No. Would I say these things out of sheer bloody-mindedness? No. I say them because they are real questions, and because I believe in the collective power of humanity and thought to come up with solutions that will keep everybody happy.
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As to DC Miller and the video guy - just how dodgy are we talking about here with these two? Never heard of either. A bit more concrete info would be appreciated.

Dont want to start a thread on this, so please excuse the hopefully brief derail

ETA reading some recent posts of hers: " I have lost my work at The Wire as a consequence of going on the YouTube video with Daniel and Justin, and I suspect that fear generated by the negative online chatter about me had a lot to do with that decision too."
 
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sunnysidedown said:
And the ominous presence of Nick Land's cold muculent tentacles through a lot of this stuff.
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...for what its worth i've heard NP talk disparagingly about Srnicek and Williams version of accelerationism, never mind Nick Land's.
dialectician said:
I hate I hate models (lol.) some people wanted to take the ebm/trance resurrection too far and this is what we were left with. should have revived more freestyle and 80s miami electro but hey that's just me. state of techno 2019.
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checked out I Hate Models (good name) on your anti-recommendation
this mix

banging tbh. only one trance tune in there that i heard (okay maybe nearer two) Not usually my bag but did it for me. But I like that Belgium/Netherlands 1992 sound which i think this has got some of.
(acutally not that into the last hour)
 
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ska invita said:
As to DC Miller and the video guy - just how dodgy are we talking about here with these two? Never heard of either. A bit more concrete info would be appreciated.

Dont want to start a thread on this, so please excuse the hopefully brief derail
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Nina is accused of two things on the TERF front - misgendering someone (possibly repeatedly) whilst having a very difficult time and also being quite out of it. I'm not particularly bothered about that. But also she has uncritically attended a meeting of one of them TERFY groups - A Woman's Place I think.

Nina is apparently Miller's partner now and he has, to be fair, helped get her out of whatever substance addictions were troubling her. He strikes me a the usual smug intellectual prick who likes to flirt with alt-right and esoteric fascist stuff without actually committing to it. He is apparently a big fan of Julius Evola who is a lightning rod for occult and intellectual fascists (and was going to do a lecture/presentation on him which I think got cancelled?). He is the guy who was the sole counter protester at the anti-fascist demonstration against the LD50 gallery in Dalston.

There are various allegations about him flying around about threatening people over the internet and hitting someone in a grocery shop in south London or something. I don't really give a shit about that particularly and most of the people making these accusations seem to be dicks.

Justin Murphy has interviewed a series of alt-right types in his vidcasts and resigned from his lecturer post after the tabloids picked up on some stupid edgelord comments about abortion being the same as necrophilia: "I don't think of myself as a hot take guy" We talked to a man who went viral when he compared abortion to necrophilia

If you watch that video with them in (and it is frankly a bit much to expect me to watch the whole thing and then summarise it for people, but that seems to be what is happening repeatedly :)) Nina makes some slightly odd comments, particularly in relation to the trouble men are having in today's society. This edges towards men's rights stuff but isn't necessarily problematic in itself. (It is a fact that men die by suicide more than women - but I would argue that this is because they are victims of patriarchal notions of manhood which can only be solved through what feminism is trying to achieve, whereas the "red pill" alt-right lot would argue that what needs to happen is for men to be "real men" again and women to know their place).

Nina also makes some comments on "place" and nature and the like - and again on its own there is no issue with this and we should all get outside more and spend less time dissecting things on the internet. It's just not great when you say that as part of a vidcast on "hate speech, paganism and feminism" in the same room as someone who is possibly an Evolian pagan fash blood and soil type.

There is a section at the end where Nina says that Death in June and Laibach are OK and their flirting with totalitarian imagery is all good subversive stuff interrogating the dark side of humanity or something.

Her subsequent defences of all this stuff have been whack. Her inadequate definition of fascism is essentially that it is authoritarianism, telling people what to do and what not to do. This misses out the other, cultural, characteristics of fascism.

So all of this is very troubling. Personally I wouldn't associate with Nina whilst she is in this weird zone and hanging around with people like that. I don't think I would join the chorus of (often anonymous) people actively trying to lose her work though.
 
Fozzie Bear said:
Nina is accused of two things on the TERF front - misgendering someone (possibly repeatedly) whilst having a very difficult time and also being quite out of it. I'm not particularly bothered about that. But also she has uncritically attended a meeting of one of them TERFY groups - A Woman's Place I think.

Nina is apparently Miller's partner now and he has, to be fair, helped get her out of whatever substance addictions were troubling her. He strikes me a the usual smug intellectual prick who likes to flirt with alt-right and esoteric fascist stuff without actually committing to it. He is apparently a big fan of Julius Evola who is a lightning rod for occult and intellectual fascists (and was going to do a lecture/presentation on him which I think got cancelled?). He is the guy who was the sole counter protester at the anti-fascist demonstration against the LD50 gallery in Dalston.

There are various allegations about him flying around about threatening people over the internet and hitting someone in a grocery shop in south London or something. I don't really give a shit about that particularly and most of the people making these accusations seem to be dicks.

Justin Murphy has interviewed a series of alt-right types in his vidcasts and resigned from his lecturer post after the tabloids picked up on some stupid edgelord comments about abortion being the same as necrophilia: "I don't think of myself as a hot take guy" We talked to a man who went viral when he compared abortion to necrophilia

If you watch that video with them in (and it is frankly a bit much to expect me to watch the whole thing and then summarise it for people, but that seems to be what is happening repeatedly :)) Nina makes some slightly odd comments, particularly in relation to the trouble men are having in today's society. This edges towards men's rights stuff but isn't necessarily problematic in itself. (It is a fact that men die by suicide more than women - but I would argue that this is because they are victims of patriarchal notions of manhood which can only be solved through what feminism is trying to achieve, whereas the "red pill" alt-right lot would argue that what needs to happen is for men to be "real men" again and women to know their place).

Nina also makes some comments on "place" and nature and the like - and again on its own there is no issue with this and we should all get outside more and spend less time dissecting things on the internet. It's just not great when you say that as part of a vidcast on "hate speech, paganism and feminism" in the same room as someone who is possibly an Evolian pagan fash blood and soil type.

There is a section at the end where Nina says that Death in June and Laibach are OK and their flirting with totalitarian imagery is all good subversive stuff interrogating the dark side of humanity or something.

Her subsequent defences of all this stuff have been whack. Her inadequate definition of fascism is essentially that it is authoritarianism, telling people what to do and what not to do. This misses out the other, cultural, characteristics of fascism.

So all of this is very troubling. Personally I wouldn't associate with Nina whilst she is in this weird zone and hanging around with people like that. I don't think I would join the chorus of (often anonymous) people actively trying to lose her work though.
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thanks for taking the time to write that
 
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