Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
This is a contender for the most ridiculous troll accusation I've seen on here tbh.
Immigration to the UK - do you have concerns?
- Thread starter mojo pixy
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This is a contender for the most ridiculous troll accusation I've seen on here tbh.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I guess those of us whose partners drive Porsches and own factories in, eg, China could ask them nicely not to exploit their employees quite so badly
Tropi
Well-Known Member
My greatest concern is that they never, ever talk about:
• Stopping the arms trade and going after the ones that most profit from it
• Stopping the support for dictatorships
• Start checking bank accounts in fiscal paradises
• Stopping money laundering in big capitals like London
• Stopping FUCKING UP other countries environment and economies
Simple.
• Stopping the arms trade and going after the ones that most profit from it
• Stopping the support for dictatorships
• Start checking bank accounts in fiscal paradises
• Stopping money laundering in big capitals like London
• Stopping FUCKING UP other countries environment and economies
Simple.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I'd clocked the Porsche references, but that other stuff; is that a known fact that has been shared on the forum?
andysays
Love and solidarity
It's referred to on this very thread.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Kinds of things I did when I was an undocumented immigrant in the US years ago. Lots of opportunities. On a personal level, I wish undocumented immigrants in the UK the best of luck. Don't get caught!
Of course it’s not the migrants fault are you daft? People will do what people always do mate- seek the best life, best living conditions and best income they can. It’s on those who exploit desperation and the system that allows it.
Sure, I too wish undocumented migrants the best of luck!
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Thing is, the pull factors are kind of obvious and not easily solvable. Some parts of the world are much richer than other parts of the world.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's not always about desperation either, and why should it be? Brazilians in London are trying their luck in a new place. They're having an adventure. Life isn't always about desperation, even for people from the Global South.
magneze
🎧
Being an island nation, I can see how implementing safe routes is kind of difficult.Good question and been trying to look this up
Looks to me Yvette Cooper is going to go for low hanging fruit first ( Brazilian overstayers etc), work more closely with EU on the people smugglers, drop Rwanda and get more staff to fast track appeals.
Might be some routes for Afghans. She might do deal with EU to take share of migrants in return for EU taking people back. Now not in EU not really part of Fortress Europe. So separate deal needs to be done.
But the long term picture no.
In spat on TV with SNP she said this after kept on being asked about safe routes. She didn't want to clearly answer the question about safe routes
So as SNP guy said that's a no then.
What legal routes there are now will be the only ones.
SNP leader view was this:
Which I agree with. Also regularising people that immigration catch when it does one of its sweeps.
Stephen Flynn in heated clash on migration with Yvette Cooper on Question Time
STEPHEN Flynn and Yvette Cooper clashed with one another during a heated debate on migration on Thursday night’s Question Time...www.thenational.scot
I wonder how it's meant to work. Does it involve setting up in close countries (eg: France) or in nearby countries to 'known' trouble spots?
Feels like it can't just be something on the border, or maybe it can.
I don't know.
Agreed that’s a fundamental condition. One that will change in the next few decades with the rise of China and India, Pakistan etc especially with globalisation via technology. My fellas second business is an accountancy/ professional services business in Pakistan- highly qualified professionals who can increasingly command Deloitte wages- and good for them!
But I understand both France and Spain do much better at not having a grey economy- couldn’t we follow their lead to try to prevent exploitation?
Tell that to the textile workers in Leicestershire. But yeah, I agree, it isnt always desperation or war. It’s simply wanting a better income than most countries where migrants come from can offer.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I have mixed feelings on that, having existed in the grey economy for many years when I was younger. It reminds me of something my Swiss anarchist friend Fritz said to me many years ago. He said that in Switzerland, you have two choices: you can either conform completely or you have to drop out completely. In the UK, there is a massive grey area between these two positions. Not sure I want to live in Fritz's Switzerland.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Apparently she's just an ordinary working class northern woman with common sense opinions...
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
france's informal economy apparently about 13% of its whole. France's Informal Economy | Shadow Economy | 2000-2024 Data
in the uk it's apparently 10.1% and spain 21.5% (figures from link). you might want to reconsider following their lead
as for exploitation, all workers are exploited. how much exploitation are you prepared to take before you deem it exploitation?
What does this even mean? I’m a southerner (who has lived in the north for over two decades granted) and now I’m a Consultant I’m hardly working class (unless you go by kabbes definition which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me). I’m in a relationship with a man who made his own money after growing up in East Africa becoming an immigrant and going to a state school in Leeds. I drive his Porsche fucking shoot me
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Maybe I am daft, or maybe just not expressing myself very clearly?
What I was asking was what "we" could/should do when, very obviously, it is exploitative capitalists that are the cause of the pull factor being discussed?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Nobody "makes their own money"; workers do that for them.What does this even mean? I’m a southerner (who has lived in the north for over two decades granted) and now I’m a Consultant I’m hardly working class (unless you go by kabbes definition which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me). I’m in a relationship with a man who made his own money after growing up in East Africa becoming an immigrant and going to a state school in Leeds. I drive his Porsche fucking shoot me
andysays
Love and solidarity
What does this even mean? I’m a southerner (who has lived in the north for over two decades granted) and now I’m a Consultant I’m hardly working class (unless you go by kabbes definition which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me). I’m in a relationship with a man who made his own money after growing up in East Africa becoming an immigrant and going to a state school in Leeds. I drive his Porsche fucking shoot me
Regardless of your current profession, you regularly post about being "working class".
You regularly post about being "in the North", and as if it is apparently fundamentally different to London or the South, as if those of us who don't live there simply can't understand what it's like.
And you seem utterly unable to recognise that your opinions on various issues are hugely coloured by your position of relative privilege, not least that your long term partner is the owner of multiple factories in China, drives a Porsche, and can apparently afford to fly you to the US to be with him for regular visits.
Whether you admit it or not, there is a huge contrast between you and most of the others posting on this thread, and even more of a gulf between you and most the migrants being discussed here.
That doesn't mean you should be shot, or even that you shouldn't post your opinions, but your opinions need to be read in the context of your economic position and your chosen lifestyle rather than them being those of a typical person.
I specifically and explicitly explained to you the exact opposite. You are a member of the Professional Managerial Class. I wrote a long and detailed post about it. You are once again sticking your fingers in your ears as soon as you get to something you don't like.
Mate I haven’t posted about being working class for about 15 years now. I did half of med school as a single Mum (moonlighting in the black economy at times to make ends meet
) then I’ve done all my training raising two kids and let me tell you doctors in training don’t get paid as much as you might imagine. Like most people my life is complicated and marked by moving through classes and still having family who are in a different class. This is real life.
Am I privileged now? Absolutely yes. Incredibly privileged. It informs everything I do. I give back.
I got here through some luck and a lot of hard work, blood, sweat and lots of tears. Training is hard for people without kids, people with a second partner to help with childcare, or people who come from money. It’s mind bendingly hard without that. Especially thro a pandemic.
Choose your own adventure. I chose mine.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I can appreciate how your own life story (openly shared here) could inform your traditional right-wing perspectives about 'getting on in life' through self-improvement and hard work; the old "boot straps" notion. But, I'm less clear about how your life experience necessarily translates into anti-immigration/"look after our own" beliefs?Mate I haven’t posted about being working class for about 15 years now. I did half of med school as a single Mum (moonlighting in the black economy at times to make ends meet
Like most people my life is complicated and marked by moving through classes and still having family who are in a different class. This is real life.
Am I privileged now? Absolutely yes. Incredibly privileged. It informs everything I do. I give back.
I got here through some luck and a lot of hard work, blood, sweat and lots of tears. Training is hard for people without kids, people with a second partner to help with childcare, or people who come from money. It’s mind bendingly hard without that. Especially thro a pandemic.
Choose your own adventure. I chose mine.
This seems to me a re-writing of Marx's theory. Is there anything new there? The words 'flourishing; 'joy' and 'self-care' are words of the moment, is there anything else I've not grasped?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Yes it has
What's new is certainly not in how I summarised this paradox of work in capitalism (although it's not just Marx, it also contains elements of other classical ideas, including Hegel and Arendt). Indeed, that's the very point behind why I suggested to lenguado that he shouldn't be so quick to write off Marx as being some old Industrial Revolution guy irrelevant to the current world. This stuff is all incredibly pertinent to today's world! The detail in how this paradox can be elaborated and potentially resolved is an active area of current research, though. Including, as you put it, the "words of the moment". After all, all developments start out as "words of the moment". The naming of a thing makes it concrete and provides a way to anchor it to other ideas, thus to allow the new idea to become usable as a tool. The notion of "flourishing", for example, requires consideration about what autonomy, agency and capability mean in practice, all of which are crucial if you are going to develop Marx's ideas.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I've posted a solution to this.
Regularise people instead of deporting them
Post in thread 'Immigration to the UK - do you have concerns?' Immigration to the UK - do you have concerns?
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