Immigration. Is it time for the right, to REALLY piss off the left?

[TonkaToy]

I'm tired of people on the left accusing others of being fucking racist, just because people want IMMIGRATION CONTROLS.

FFS.

I'm tired of people who keep saying "What are we to do? Kick the foreigners out of the country?"

Like it's the only fucking alternative to open borders.

Well fuck it. You're all fucking racist. Every single last cunt in the fecking country is racist, because NOT ENOUGH immigrants have been coming here.

If YOU ALL wasn't so fucking raicst, we would have 5 million immigrants each year.

Well, what you are going to do about it, you racist fuckers?

Shame on you all!

We should all be sitting here, thinking up how we can encourage yet more people to come here! Anyone who disagrees with me is racist.

Racist racist racist racist!

 

[TonkaToy]

My apoligies to any immigrants already here, especially the brown ones, because you lot can't be racist. But your kids will be coz British culture is racist, but don't worry about that, because it's our fault. We're really, really, really sorry about that.

We'll think of some way to make it all better. <With working class white money of course>

 

[editor]

I'm tired of people on the left accusing others of being fucking racist, just because people want IMMIGRATION CONTROLS.

Yes! Britain for the Britons! No more foreigners!

If people want to live here they'll have to learn the language!

(Waits for TonkaToy to sign up for Welsh lessons)


PS You are layabout, aren't you?

 

[TonkaToy]

Yes! Britain for the Britons! No more foreigners!

If people want to live here they'll have to learn the language!

(Waits for TonkaToy to sign up for Welsh lessons)


PS You are layabout, aren't you?

Layabout? Might as well ask me if I'm Lord fucking Lucan. As much as I know, Layabout was banned was he not?

The answer is no, I'm not Layabout.

Anyway, it's rather depressing and telling that you are projecting the view that I wouldn't want anymore foreigners in the country or would insist they are able to speak a certain language.

Mind you, it would be nice if you learnt to understand plain fucking English, because nowhere have I posted on these forums (Or any other) that no more foreigners should be allowed into Britain or that they should have to speak English to be able to do so.

 

[TonkaToy]

bah...that was a bit harsh...sorry....

** Put's the kettle on and starts download of Eastenders.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I'm all for immigrants, but I don't see anything wrong with requiring them to learn English.

Or French, as the case may be here in Canada.

 

[Dhimmi]

See I'd draw the line at making anyone speak French.

 

[TeeJay]

My apoligies to any immigrants already here, especially the brown ones, because you lot can't be racist.

I am an immigrant so I accept your apology.

Now go fuck yourself.

I don't really understand what your point actually is (or even if you in fact have any kind of coherent point) but whatever it is I don't like the way you made it.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I am an immigrant so I accept your apology.

Now go fuck yourself.

An immigrant from the US...

 

[TeeJay]

An immigrant from the US...

And your point is caller...?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

And your point is caller...?

You already knew how to speak english.

 

[TeeJay]

You already knew how to speak english.

Where is language mentioned in the original post?

 

[TonkaToy]

I am an immigrant so I accept your apology.

Now go fuck yourself.

I don't really understand what your point actually is (or even if you in fact have any kind of coherent point) but whatever it is I don't like the way you made it.

If you don't understand my post, then you really don't understand why I made it and why I worded it the way I did, so therefore I really don't think you have the right to take issue with me over the way I tried to make my point.

As for you telling me to go and "fuck myself" - I'm not rising to it.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Where is language mentioned in the original post?

It's in the third post.

 

[zenie]

I'm tired of people on the left accusing others of being fucking racist, just because people want IMMIGRATION CONTROLS.

FFS.

I'm tired of people who keep saying "What are we to do? Kick the foreigners out of the country?"

Like it's the only fucking alternative to open borders.

Well fuck it. You're all fucking racist. Every single last cunt in the fecking country is racist, because NOT ENOUGH immigrants have been coming here.

If YOU ALL wasn't so fucking raicst, we would have 5 million immigrants each year.

Well, what you are going to do about it, you racist fuckers?

Shame on you all!

We should all be sitting here, thinking up how we can encourage yet more people to come here! Anyone who disagrees with me is racist.

Racist racist racist racist!

I don't understand

Can you say that again in English please?

 

[TonkaToy]

I don't understand

Can you say that again in English please?

*sigh*

very well then.

I'm more right on than you!

 

[TeeJay]

TonkaToy, you say dislike people conflating 'racism' and 'immigration', yet your opening post seems to use the term 'racism' without question.

What do you understand by "race"?

What do you understand by "immigrant"?

I am also tired of people conflating the two issues, but there is often a link in that slagging off "immigrants" (of which I am one) is often a coded way that some (many?) people have of slagging off ethnic groups and people with different shades of skin from themselves.

People like Norman Tebbit have clearly started that they want to see immigration to the UK "reduced to a trickle". The BNP go further and call for "repatriation" (although they phrase it thus: "...the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants and their descendants who are legally here are afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question." - from their 2005 general election manifesto which you can read on their website)

I kind of assume that you are being sarcastic with the following comment:

Well fuck it. You're all fucking racist. Every single last cunt in the fecking country is racist, because NOT ENOUGH immigrants have been coming here.

However, you bemoan conflating race and immigration but add precisely nothing to the debate -0 in fact you simply further stir it up.

It is as if you want to close down two debates at the same time: objections to racism and objections to 'keep em out' policies.

You are not helping get away from this mish-mash of the two issues - you are making it even worse.

For this reason, while your ultimate point is lost underneath a load of negative recationary ranting, your hypocrisy and incoherent bullshit shines through unmistakably.

For this reason I object to your opening post.

 

[TeeJay]

It's in the third post.

I refer my urban colleague to my previous post number #10

 

[TonkaToy]

"am also tired of people conflating the two issues, but there is often a link in that slagging off "immigrants"

Who's slagging off immigrants?

That's another thing. I don't agree with Norman Tebbit, but there is way too many people, who are saying that people with his views are "blaming immigrants" - what a load of old bollocks. Like stopping someone from entering this country, is like blaming the immigrants already here? What wank. What a load of old fucking fanny. No wonder normal people think the open borders crowd are nuts.

Sorry, but I'm not taking up your invite to quantify what is "Race" and what is "immigration" - I'm not trying to justify my viewpoint on either race or immigration, but I am having a good old fashioned moan about those who choose to brand others as racist, just simply because they oppose open borders.

Also, no offence, but I really, really could not give a flying fuck as to whether someone is an immigrant or not, especially on some messageboard - my views don't change depending on whom I'm talking to.

 

[TeeJay]

That's another thing. I don't agree with Norman Tebbit, but there is way too many people, who are saying that people with his views are "blaming immigrants" - what a load of old bollocks.

Maybe you should go and read this article about Tebbit's views: http://www.sundayherald.com/51204 and then come back to me on that one.

 

[TonkaToy]

Also, Teejay, there is nothing hypocritical about my stance.

I'm calling bullshit on people who say it's racist just to oppose open borders.

If you don't like race being brought into immigration debates, blame the open borders crowd, not some hapless normal person.

 

[TeeJay]

...I am having a good old fashioned moan about those who choose to brand others as racist, just simply because they oppose open borders...

If this is your central point then is it really worth a whole thread with an opening post that consists mostly of ranting and mixed messages?

If you want a sensible debate then why not start a sensible debate?

It seems that your response to people posting hysterical rubbish is to start a whole thread of yet more hysterical rubbish.

 

[TonkaToy]

Maybe you should go and read this article about Tebbit's views: http://www.sundayherald.com/51204 and then come back to me on that one.

Read it. He has one great big whopping pop at multiculturalism, for me to work out whether he is being a bigoted cunt or not, I would have do know exactly what his definition of multiculturalism actually is.

That said, taking on board his views about the "cricket test" - If I was a betting man, I would put the chips on him being a bigot, but that's besides the point. Too many open borders people use people like NB as a battering ram to make normal people look like bigots.

TB is a bit of a cunt, but it's WHY he's a bit of a cunt that's important not that fact that he would love immigration reduced to a trickle.

 

[TeeJay]

Also, Teejay, there is nothing hypocritical about my stance.

I'm calling bullshit on people who say it's racist just to oppose open borders.

If you don't like race being brought into immigration debates, blame the open borders crowd, not some hapless normal person.

When you say it like that it is perfectly reasonable and understandable - but hardly worth a whole thread surely? What kind of reaction or debate are you looking for here?

As for "blame them they started it" - sorry, this doesn't wash. You have control over what you post and a choice about what ends up under your name.

Moreover, if this thread is in fact about whart is and isn't racist, then I have every right to ask what you mean by "race" and "racism", and I can't see how you can refuse to debate it. Why else did you start the thread if you don't want to talk about this central issue of yours?

 

[TeeJay]

Read it. He has one great big whopping pop at multiculturalism, for me to work out whether he is being a bigoted cunt or not, I would have do know exactly what his definition of multiculturalism actually is.

That said, taking on board his views about the "cricket test" - If I was a betting man, I would put the chips on him being a bigot, but that's besides the point. Too many open borders people use people like NB as a battering ram to make normal people look like bigots.

TB is a bit of a cunt, but it's WHY he's a bit of a cunt that's important not that fact that he would love immigration reduced to a trickle.

You said he isn't "blaming immigrants".

I don't agree with Norman Tebbit, but there is way too many people, who are saying that people with his views are "blaming immigrants" - what a load of old bollocks.

Doesn't it look like he is blaming immigrants for changing the UK in ways he doesn't like? For failing to integrate?

 

[TonkaToy]

If this is your central point then is it really worth a whole thread with an opening post that consists mostly of ranting and mixed messages?

If you want a sensible debate then why not start a sensible debate?

It seems that your response to people posting hysterical rubbish is to start a whole thread of yet more hysterical rubbish.

Hysterical?

Well everyone knows that most people on the left are racist. It's perfect logical sense....

...yet you told me to go and fuck myself. A very emotional response no?

Why was your response so emotional TeeJay?

Destructive, isn't it. Even on the other thread, there was a veiled threat of a ban, just for JOKING with Editor that he's racist for being a lefty.

Yet on the same thread, you're telling me to "Fuck off gobshite..."

So when a rightie complains about lefties accusing the right of generally being racists...it's "Hysterical" ... when a rightie JOKES about a leftie being racist, it's time to make him feel insecure about his user account here....

 

[TonkaToy]

You said he isn't "blaming immigrants".



Doesn't it look like he is blaming immigrants for changing the UK in ways he doesn't like? For failing to integrate?

I was talking in the context of your original accusation about Normal Tebbit

That he would like to see immigration cut down to a trickle.

I said nothing wrong in that, but then it's like you coming with something like "Aha but he fucks defenceless children!"

Whatever you have to say about Tebbit, it's still doesn't detract from the original point I made about him.

People are perfectly capable of agreeing or disagreeing with him on whatever he says.

If you have a gripe with people who are asking for less immigration BECAUSE they blame immigrants for societies ills. Then be my guest, get stuck in and be their nemesis. But when some hapless bugger like me merely opposes unchecked immigration, I don't like my views being branded as racist, with all manner of the usual fucking cliches about wanting foreigners out etc, etc, etc.

 

[TeeJay]

By the way, you might (or might not) be pleased to hear that not only only I think the BNP are a bunch of cunts, but I also think the SWP and "class struggle anarchists" are as well - if either of these are who you mean by the "no borders" people.

I (being a despised middle-of-the-road wooly reformist liberal/green/libertarian/internationalist type) actually think that as an ideal someone's right to travel, work and live wherever they want in the world is a good one and one that I like. However, while this is an ideal, I don't support immediately tearing down all border controls in real life, not least because a logical result would be states (with all their IMO useful and desirable functions) would/could in effect cease to function: for example, without any controls or agreement how would police stop anyone from running across the nearest border (that didn't actually exist)? If borders didn't exist, where would one government's power stop and another's start? The world would either simply be one big country or have no functioning states at all.

Therefore "no borders" is neither IMO to despised or to be supported.

In reality it isn't part of the real debate going on either. Our energies are far better spent debating real policy issues about real-life decisions that are going to be made in the UK, EU and elsewhere.

An example would be, for example, that I support the continued expansion of the EU to any country that wants to join and which meets the existing Copenhagen criteria. This is in the face of some people who don't want any "non-european" countries in it. This is a real debate that touches on the 'no-borders' issue not just la-la-land 'no borders' stuff.

 

[TeeJay]

Well everyone knows that most people on the left are racist.

A fair number are, yes. People can support "the left" purely out of self interest and the far left are just as nasty IMO as the far right - but often they dress up their genocide in 'class stuggle' bullshit.

 

[TeeJay]

Why was your response so emotional TeeJay?

It was calculated to put you on the back foot and encourage you to switch from ranting to debating.