Identity Politics: the impasse, the debate, the thread.

[butchersapron]

what? I am generalising when I say anti identity politics - I don't mean all criticisms of the massive range of things that have been put under that label. I'm talking about a specific approach which dominates anti-idpol discourse, which is obsessively focused on certain minority groups (or by proxy- easy, irrelevant targets like middle class pundits butchering intersectionality used to insinuate and dismiss the issues while maintaining plausible deniability)

I think you just mean that you want to swear at people without fully thinking through the political implications of your shouting. For instance, in this latest post you now seem to argue that anti-identity politics is fine if done in a way that you approve of - when you entered the thread calling anyone who has an anti-identity politics basically soft fascists, racists, misogynists etc

 

[lucillemara]

I do want to swear at people, it's true, it's cathartic. I don't particularly care if I'm not rigorous enough in my arguments for your liking. I never actually said identity politics is good or bad.

 

[butchersapron]

...

God, i hope not.

 

[lucillemara]

I also never said everyone who is anti-identity politics is reactionary, except for some specific definitions of identity. I think there is a lot of reaction within the discourse though, and it's toxic. like I said, I never even heard the phrase until people started yelling at me for not liking russell brand or whatever.

 

[butchersapron]

I also never said everyone who is anti-identity politics is reactionary, except for some specific definitions of identity. I think there is a lot of reaction within the discourse though, and it's toxic. like I said, I never even heard the phrase until people started yelling at me for not liking russell brand or whatever.

You really need to define what you're talking about. Identity, anti-identity, politics, fascism, workerism, leftyboys etc I think reading the thread might help you. Stop you tying yourself in knots and having to keep backtracking.

 

[DotCommunist]

Theres a long thread calling Brand 10 types of wanker somewhere....

 

[lucillemara]

You really need to define what you're talking about. Identity, anti-identity, politics, fascism, workerism, leftyboys etc I think reading the thread might help you. Stop you tying yourself in knots and having to keep backtracking.

no I'm not interested in logic and reason debate culture bs. I have been as clear as I can be. you know what these things mean I'm sure. if not you can move on to whatever nonsense hadley freeman said the other day and doesn't this just say it all nudge nudge wink

 

[butchersapron]

no I'm not interested in logic and reason debate culture bs. I have been as clear as I can be. you know what these things mean I'm sure. if not you can move on to whatever nonsense hadley freeman said the other day and doesn't this just say it all nudge nudge wink

Ok. I think you should go set up a cell of invincible fire to burn down the existent then. That's all that's left.

 

[Idris2002]

Does anyone have any idea wtf they're on about?

It's just a teenager engaging in "self-expression".

 

[mojo pixy]

what? I am generalising when I say anti identity politics - I don't mean all criticisms of the massive range of things that have been put under that label. I'm talking about a specific approach which dominates anti-idpol discourse, which is obsessively focused on certain minority groups (or by proxy- easy, irrelevant targets like middle class pundits butchering intersectionality used to insinuate and dismiss the issues while maintaining plausible deniability)

Is this happening on this thread? You'd best go back and check. Or just keep yelling at clouds.

 

[TruXta]

no I'm not interested in logic and reason debate culture bs. I have been as clear as I can be. you know what these things mean I'm sure. if not you can move on to whatever nonsense hadley freeman said the other day and doesn't this just say it all nudge nudge wink

Aka I've no idea wtf I'm saying except it's making me really angry.

Would you like a cuddle?

 

[ska invita]

(CPGB-ML)

this is what happens
fuck the anti-idpol left

that is fucked up, however, they are stalinst loons, so "this is what happens" when stalinists have a club to go to

 

[Shechemite]

that is fucked up, however, they are stalinst loons, so "this is what happens" when stalinists have a club to go to

Yet another thing that the ID-Pols and the chauvinists have in common

“Compassionate, non-violent course of action”: Goldsmiths University students defend the gulag

 

[lucillemara]

what so LGBT issues aren't idpol now? I'm so confused!

 

[TruXta]

Yes

 

[ska invita]

Yet another thing that the ID-Pols and the chauvinists have in common

“Compassionate, non-violent course of action”: Goldsmiths University students defend the gulag

...which brings us back to the behaviour of confused people, particularly students

 

[lucillemara]

Yes

ok so I used to be a trans activist but someone accused me of id pol so I decided to reject that by becoming a terf. but then someone accused me of doing identity politics for doing that! it's all so confusing! it's like you can't win! how do I become a proper activist?

 

[butchersapron]

Games up then.

 

[Idris2002]

ok so I used to be a trans activist but someone accused me of id pol so I decided to reject that by becoming a terf. but then someone accused me of doing identity politics for doing that! it's all so confusing! it's like you can't win! how do I become a proper activist?

Could this be the latest avatar of. . . the fastest milkman in the west? (those who know will understand)

 

[butchersapron]

Could this be the latest avatar of. . . the fastest milkman in the west? (those who know will understand)

No chance.

 

[Idris2002]

No chance.

It's the last three sentences where s/he starts JAQing off that made me wonder. . .

 

[krtek a houby]

Could this be the latest avatar of. . . the fastest milkman in the west? (those who know will understand)

Gods, that tedious fuckwinkle. I sincerely hope not.

 

[lucillemara]

only the last post was a troll really, I was serious to start with and I still am but I don't expect to get anywhere with this crowd

 

[krtek a houby]

only the last post was a troll really, I was serious to start with and I still am but I don't expect to get anywhere with this crowd

I tend to listen to danny, he's not patronising and most patient. He won't call you out on your age/gender/inexperience/experience etc. There is no one way to approach the debate, of course. As you no doubt realise.

 

[TruXta]

only the last post was a troll really, I was serious to start with and I still am but I don't expect to get anywhere with this crowd

This crowd wants reason and arguments rather than screeching and bullshit. Give it a go eh?

 

[lucillemara]

I tend to listen to danny, he's not patronising and most patient. He won't call you out on your age/gender/inexperience/experience etc. There is no one way to approach the debate, of course. As you no doubt realise.

thank you, his response was the most helpful of the ones I got but I won't press on this too much more

I do get pissed off I am repeatedly accused of identity politics by the reactionary right for not being a nazi and then accused of the same by the left for not treating class as an (usually implicitly gendered, racialised) identity, and lefties refuse to take the abuse of the term seriously. I hear the term more from the right than the left these days.

 

[lucillemara]

This crowd wants reason and arguments rather than screeching and bullshit. Give it a go eh?

logical positivism is dead dude

 

[TruXta]

logical positivism is dead dude

No it's not, but even if it were that has nothing to do with your content free ramblings.

 

[butchersapron]

thank you, his response was the most helpful of the ones I got but I won't press on this too much more

I do get pissed off I am repeatedly accused of identity politics by the reactionary right for not being a nazi and then accused of the same by the left for not treating class as an (usually implicitly gendered, racialised) identity, and lefties refuse to take the abuse of the term seriously. I hear the term more from the right than the left these days.

Flipping wild accusations. They ruin everything.

 

[Pickman's model]

thank you, his response was the most helpful of the ones I got but I won't press on this too much more

I do get pissed off I am repeatedly accused of identity politics by the reactionary right for not being a nazi and then accused of the same by the left for not treating class as an (usually implicitly gendered, racialised) identity, and lefties refuse to take the abuse of the term seriously. I hear the term more from the right than the left these days.​

​

So you're accused of not being a nazi by all concerned?