Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

I joined the Labour Party...

What...you mean the SNP that didn't enforce those new contract 'proposals' for the NHS with all those demos down there in England? The SNP that's frozen the council tax year on year, free travel for the old, no prescription charges? Tory bastards.
Largely the same as Wales then (where they have the relevant powers). Where it was done by those far right Labourites.

And I didn't call them Tories. They're not,any more. But anyone who thinks they are more trustworthy than Corbyn is truly deluded.
 
Largely the same as Wales then (where they have the relevant powers). Where it was done by those far right Labourites.

And I didn't call them Tories. They're not,any more. But anyone who thinks they are more trustworthy than Corbyn is truly deluded.
Don't vote for them then, it's your choice.

I don't know what you're on about though...trustworthy...deluded? This thread is about someone taking a positive step as they see it. I was pointing out that up here those positive steps are having an effect and have been for quite a while...as I see it. For me those positive steps are to the left...that doesn't mean I have a left-wing government...shit is more complicated than that.
 
Corbyn is backtracking and accommodating blairites while not in power. What makes anyone think he is going to be trustworthy and in any way radical if he ever reaches power?
 
Corbyn is backtracking and accommodating blairites while not in power. What makes anyone think he is going to be trustworthy and in any way radical if he ever reaches power?
Whereas your heroes are in hock to homophobe Souter and all round scumbag Murdoch. You'd have to be an imbecile to tuts them further than you could spit them.

Amy chance of you coming back to expand on your defence or third period Stalinism, by the way? You know, this statist nonsense from the thirties that has never ever worked anywhere?
 
Murdoch got met by Salmond as FM as you may know Sky employs lots of people in Scotland. So just normal business there and you can get off your moral high horse because Murdoch has been meeting Labour leaders in the past. He has even complimented Corbyn recently. Souter doesn't give as much to the SNP as our lottery winners the Weirs. You got a problem with them? As for the Stalinist jibe, I believe independence opens up the potential for socialist politics to advance in Scotland and in the rump UK. What disappoints is Corbyns contempt for working an anti austerity alliance with the SNP. His visit to Scotland went down badly. Five SNP victories by good margins in former Labour heartlands and the polls suggesting Corbyns Labour are struggling to beat the blue Tories into third place.
 
Murdoch got met by Salmond as FM as you may know Sky employs lots of people in Scotland. So just normal business there and you can get off your moral high horse because Murdoch has been meeting Labour leaders in the past. He has even complimented Corbyn recently. Souter doesn't give as much to the SNP as our lottery winners the Weirs. You got a problem with them? As for the Stalinist jibe, I believe independence opens up the potential for socialist politics to advance in Scotland and in the rump UK. What disappoints is Corbyns contempt for working an anti austerity alliance with the SNP. His visit to Scotland went down badly. Five SNP victories by good margins in former Labour heartlands and the polls suggesting Corbyns Labour are struggling to beat the blue Tories into third place.
Lol indeed. That's exactly the same pisspoor excuse labour et al always give for meeting Murdoch, and for taking money of scumbags. They were hypocrites just as the SNP are hypocrites. a right pair of Janus's. And then you get confused, are you supporting the SNP because they will become socialists after independence, or because independence will allow socialist groups to flourish? If it's the latter, then why bother with all this wholly unconvincing defence of the worst aspects of the SNP? If it's the former, then there aren't enough lol's in the world. And you know, your description of this hoped for process is precisely that of the Stalinists. And it has never ever worked.
 
The SNP are a broad party of independence, 120,000 members in a nation of Scotland's size would be comparable to a Party of well over a million in England. The SNP exists to achieve independence. It's that above all else that binds it together. With the achievement of independence it will change and most likely split on a left right axis. The left split will offer in conjunction with others outside the party, the best chance of delivering a cogent and credible socialist challenge. Most informed people would expect the SNP to remain in power on a relatively progressive programme. Should they fail to do that then they would be out of power sooner rather than later. So to recap for you and other scoffers, independence for socialists like me is a prerequisite to a workers republic and socialist society. Your British road to socialism is dead and Corbyns Labour Party will have to deal with a terrain that they as yet don't appear to understand.
 
'British road to socialism' lol. You really are quoting pure Stalinism.

Where has you plan ever worked? Doing well in South Africa, isn't it?
 
The ANC are corrupt. They were effectively shaped by imperialism before they took power and IMO need overthrowing. Imperialism has managed national liberation struggles in other places to its advantage. Ireland, Palestine being two cases.
 
The SNP haven't set themselves out to be revolutionary anti imperialists that would attract the corrupting influence of imperialism. Safe to say they will be fairly pragmatic and prosaic as the government of an independent Scotland , happy to be in both the EU and NATO. The socialists and more revolutionary elements of Scotland will be a lot more radical and anti imperialist.
 
The SNP haven't set themselves out to be revolutionary anti imperialists that would attract the corrupting influence of imperialism. Safe to say they will be fairly pragmatic and prosaic as the government of an independent Scotland , happy to be in both the EU and NATO. The socialists and more revolutionary elements of Scotland will be a lot more radical and anti imperialist.

"Independence for Yr Hen Ogledd"
 
fucking hell. I don't have a problem with people making a pragmatic choice to support independence - I'd do the same myself if I lived in Scotland. But to completely swallow the kool-aid and make spirited defences of the worst actions of the SNP with opinions culled from Wings over Scotland while criticising those south of the border for making a similar pragmatic choice is fucking hilarious.
 
Unfortunately, all the evidence suggests that the Corbyn project is doomed.

Even if Corbyn does stick to his opposition to Trident, he seems to have no idea how to defend such a policy from the resistance of the military establishment.

When a senior general said that the British military will ‘use whatever mean possible, fair or foul’ to prevent Corbyn from ‘emasculating’ their power, Corbyn’s response was merely to suggest that it didn’t matter because the general had now been ‘told off’ by his superiors!

In terms of economics, a likely trajectory of any Corbyn-led government will be to end up imposing austerity - just as Syriza are now doing in Greece.

11539149_840370896040622_1349344004135325651_o.jpg


Labour already say they support the Tory idea of a ‘welfare cap of £120 billion’. Indeed, the shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, sounds more like Thatcher than Marx when he says: ‘We are going to have to live within our means and we always will’.

Like Ken Livingstone, who he worked with in the 1980s, McDonnell is very good at sometimes sounding radical. But, once in power, McDonnell may well repeat Livingstone’s trajectory as London’s Mayor, i.e. he’ll just end up running capitalism. It is significant that Corbyn’s top advisers used to advise Livingstone when he was Mayor.

This is not to say that Labour’s new leaders do not have other, more ‘radical', tendencies. Both Corbyn and McDonnell, for instance, believe that ‘we can learn a lot’ from Castro’s dictatorship in Cuba and its ‘amazing success story’ [sic] . Furthermore, back in 1991, when even official Communists were giving up on the Soviet Union, Corbyn still saw the Soviet Union as an important part of the leadership of the international left, at one point saying that he was ‘concerned at the break-up of the Soviet Union and the leadership it gave.’ (Morning Star, 24/9/91)

Right-wingers may use such facts to claim that Labour’s leaders are secret revolutionaries. But anyone who knows the history of Stalinism knows that people with Stalinist illusions are often opposed to revolutionary change.

One obvious example is Socialist Action, an ex-Trotskyist group who have been accused of having influence over Corbyn’s leadership. Socialist Action, for instance, say that in a war between the US and China they would defend China on the grounds that the ‘Chinese capitalist class … do not hold power’. Such pro-Chinese views may worry a pro-US military establishment. But all these views really show is how Socialist Action are more Stalinist fantasists than any sort of genuine revolutionaries.

For more arguments against the Labour Party see:
Arguments AGAINST Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party
You haven't said anything.
 
It's pretty understandable that right here, right now, people will join the Labour Party in the belief that small, limited, concrete victories are more possible than the bigger but less tangible and less immediate promises of extra-parliamentary routes. It's also pretty understandable that people join the Greens or the SNP or Plaid with similar motives.

To argue that anybody joining with any grander illusions than that (such as seeing these parties as vehicles for significant social change ( or simply halting austerity) are headed for disappointment is equally reasonable.
 
The SNP haven't set themselves out to be revolutionary anti imperialists that would attract the corrupting influence of imperialism. Safe to say they will be fairly pragmatic and prosaic as the government of an independent Scotland , happy to be in both the EU and NATO. The socialists and more revolutionary elements of Scotland will be a lot more radical and anti imperialist.
wow, that would be hilarious if you weren't serious. If you think your bourgeois nationalist bunch of fraudsters, who discovered social democracy only after decades of being the Tartan Tories, are the way forward, then, you really do have no hope. At least your Stalinism is out in the open. Tho you knew that already, of course
 
The SNP haven't set themselves out to be revolutionary anti imperialists that would attract the corrupting influence of imperialism. Safe to say they will be fairly pragmatic and prosaic as the government of an independent Scotland , happy to be in both the EU and NATO. The socialists and more revolutionary elements of Scotland will be a lot more radical and anti imperialist.

Honestly I'm English and I'm pro-independence (if the Scottish people want it), I'd rather have your average SNP MP than your average Labour MP and I'm very concerned by the anti-Scottish sentiment which seems to be growing in England but I do not buy this at all. The SNP haven't 'attracted the corrupting influence of imperialism' because they are as much in hock to the same sort of foreign policy consensus as any other establishment party, one of the first things Nicola Sturgeon did after becoming leader was to tour the USA to win approval from American establishment liberals.

I get where you are coming from, and if I lived in Scotland I would join the RIC but the idea that an independent Scotland would be that much further along your 'revolutionary road' seems a bit far fetched to me.
 
most councils provide a phone number for the collection of larger items

Around my way it's 'property developers' and landlords that are the chief offenders, who can't get their stuff taken away for nothing. Including dumping asbestos on the playing fields. They're not folk heroes, they're scum, pulling in thousands a month in housing benefit but not paying for a skip, leaving others to foot the bill. Always obvious who's doing it, you can follow the trail of debris back to the house in most cases, but nothing fucking happens because some areas are just left to rot.
 
We now have her maj's official opposition rejecting austerity and openly supporting direct action - the scope for mobilising mass popular opposition to the neoliberal agenda is there. Just look at the victory of the PCS strikers at the National Gallery. That was a product of the combination of their own sacrifice and solidarity, together with (what they acknowledge has been) the shift in the political mood born out of the scale of Corbyn's support.
New Chief exex can come in and diss the predecessor by settling - and it seems a bit of a limited victory - they've agreed to review privatisation in a year or so.
 
I've liked a few of those posts from belboid above, but mostly because I think the SNP are far too undercriticised and under-analysed on here by some. Or are those living outside Scotland (eg in Wales ;) ) supposed to button it?

Myself I'm not even that much of a leftie (neither is Corbyn ;) ) but there's nothing wrong with realistic criticism.

Of Labour definitely, but also of the oh-so-pure SNP ...
 
New Chief exex can come in and diss the predecessor by settling - and it seems a bit of a limited victory - they've agreed to review privatisation in a year or so.

Yes, I read the PCS page about that, and I did think 'victory' was well overdoing it there.

PCS is my union -- but their victory-achieving powers are a tad limited :(

This week 94.5% have voted 'No' vs 9.5% 'Yes' in an indicative PCS ballot against linking performance ratings to annual pay settlements in the DfT, but that's 'indicative' only and I can't right now find the link anyway :( :oops:
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom