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I joined the Labour Party...

articul8 said:
Just look at the victory of the PCS strikers at the National Gallery. That was a product of the combination of their own sacrifice and solidarity, together with (what they acknowledge has been) the shift in the political mood born out of the scale of Corbyn's support.
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The jobs have been outsourced so it's an odd victory in a dispute over privatisation (although I believe the sacked shop steward there won reinstatement which is good but nothing to do with Corbyn).
 
agricola said:
image.jpg
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Oh right so that's the SNP is it? All 120,000 members? Souter's buses run OK here in Liverpool. Or do Labourites in the city only travel on Arriva? Seriously posting this or Salmond beside Murdoch means fuck all other than the SNP aren't socialist, who said they were? We can talk about Labour killing hundreds of thousands of men, women and children in Iraq if you want to?
 
1pm - what's the time articul8? six o'clock!
2pm - what's the time articul8? six o'clock!
3pm - what's the time articul8? six o'clock!
4pm - what's the time articul8? six o'clock!
5pm - what's the time articul8? six o'clock!
6pm - what's the time articul8? six o'clock! vindication of my timekeeping!
 
fiannanahalba said:
Oh right so that's the SNP is it? All 120,000 members? Souter's buses run OK here in Liverpool. Or do Labourites in the city only travel on Arriva? Seriously posting this or Salmond beside Murdoch means fuck all other than the SNP aren't socialist, who said they were? We can talk about Labour killing hundreds of thousands of men, women and children in Iraq if you want to?
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is membership of the snp big in liverpool?
i was joking about joining in bilston but you might be on to something. if i can't join the snp maybe i could join podemos? or syriza?
if we ignore geography maybe we could ignore time as well? i might join the bolsheviks.
 
discokermit said:
is membership of the snp big in liverpool?
i was joking about joining in bilston but you might be on to something. if i can't join the snp maybe i could join podemos? or syriza?
if we ignore geography maybe we could ignore time as well? i might join the bolsheviks.
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Massive Podemos Branch on the Lunt I've heard?
 
DrRingDing said:
What i find upsetting is not old timers like yourself or TC but the young people that were starting to wake up and putting their energies into genuine grassroots groups with real potential, like Reclaim Hackney.

Now they've paid their cash and now shift responsibility onto the LP.
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I don't agree. My experience is that previously a majority of CLP members didn't confine their allegiance just to Labour, but were usually active members of local grassroots activist orgs too.
 
YouSir said:
Do the SNP do all that ground level hard work then? Not an argument, just a question, I'm not Scottish so don't know. Also you have the SNP, a big party you can join who, you say, will make a difference. You're berating people south of the border who don't have that option for thinking they might do with Corbyn.
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I'm saying that an alternative to Labour can be built. SNP was getting 2-3% support in late 60s. Then it made a breakthrough and despite ups and downs got to where it is now - leading the end of the British state and securing Scottish independence in the not too distant future. The English working class are not ballot fodder for the second party of capitalism and deserve an alternative. It will only come about by the hard work and dedication of people who can see through Labourism and the middle class sects that dominate left politics in England.
 
fiannanahalba said:
I'm saying that an alternative to Labour can be built. SNP was getting 2-3% support in late 60s. Then it made a breakthrough and despite ups and downs got to where it is now - leading the end of the British state and securing Scottish independence in the not too distant future. The English working class are not ballot fodder for the second party of capitalism and deserve an alternative. It will only come about by the hard work and dedication of people who can see through Labourism and the middle class sects that dominate left politics in England.
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I think our point was that the SNP are exactly the same as those hypocritical shits in Labour. For anyone to laugh at people joining Labour whilst supporting the fraudsters of the SNP is rank hypocrisy. The SNP are nothing but hot air, and if they did achieve independence, they'd make Blair look like Lenin.
 
discokermit said:
is membership of the snp big in liverpool?
i was joking about joining in bilston but you might be on to something. if i can't join the snp maybe i could join podemos? or syriza?
if we ignore geography maybe we could ignore time as well? i might join the bolsheviks.
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You appear to be doing the time travelling with Corbyn as it is- 1970s Labourism. Jeremy's favourite period.
 
fiannanahalba said:
I'm saying that an alternative to Labour can be built. SNP was getting 2-3% support in late 60s. Then it made a breakthrough and despite ups and downs got to where it is now - leading the end of the British state and securing Scottish independence in the not too distant future. The English working class are not ballot fodder for the second party of capitalism and deserve an alternative. It will only come about by the hard work and dedication of people who can see through Labourism and the middle class sects that dominate left politics in England.
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Where do the SNP offer more than a Corbyn led Labour? Assuming he follows through on the democratisation process? You're lauding the alternative SNP but you're going to have to fill me in on what that major, mainstream party offers over the other one. I half agreed with what you were saying earlier about grassroots organising and doing something concrete within communities but not sure I see where the SNP do that.
 
YouSir said:
Where do the SNP offer more than a Corbyn led Labour? Assuming he follows through on the democratisation process? You're lauding the alternative SNP but you're going to have to fill me in on what that major, mainstream party offers over the other one. I half agreed with what you were saying earlier about grassroots organising and doing something concrete within communities but not sure I see where the SNP do that.
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The SNP for me and thousands of others in it, is a Party of independence. We are moving on in a socialist direction when that is secured. The independence movement has been where the grassroots work has flourished although the SNP has a formidable community machine at work these days.
 
fiannanahalba said:
Yes Scottish independence is just so out there.
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no, believing the SNP are anything but the first party of Scottish capitalism, that they will do anything to support genuine democracy, that they are anything but a bourgeois nationalist farce, is completely out of this world.

fiannanahalba said:
We are moving on in a socialist direction when that is secured.
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Jesus, the Stalinism of fools
 
discokermit said:
how about the strength of organised labour that had been fostered and nourished by decades of keynesian economics.
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Yes the post war consensus that saw one nation Toryism building council houses at a greater pace than Labour. Hey that's over, but I like to think the neo Keynsianists like you have new big answers?
 
fiannanahalba said:
The SNP for me and thousands of others in it, is a Party of independence. We are moving on in a socialist direction when that is secured. The independence movement has been where the grassroots work has flourished although the SNP has a formidable community machine at work these days.
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So it's not a workers party, or a Socialist one, though you hope it will be one day..? Yeah, kind of undoes your slating of people joining Labour.
 
fiannanahalba said:
Oh right so that's the SNP is it? All 120,000 members? Souter's buses run OK here in Liverpool. Or do Labourites in the city only travel on Arriva? Seriously posting this or Salmond beside Murdoch means fuck all other than the SNP aren't socialist, who said they were? We can talk about Labour killing hundreds of thousands of men, women and children in Iraq if you want to?
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So along comes a Labour leader who demonstrably opposed the war in Iraq, who opposes rail privatization (where the likes of Souter continue to get millions from), who opposes Press malpractice of the kind that Murdoch's papers are accused of, and who can at least have an argument made about him that he is a little bit socialist. However he should be ignored because the Murdoch papers will make sure he won't win, and he doesn't have the kind of financial support that Souter gives the SNP, but we can expect the SNP to deliver socialism.
 
articul8 said:
I don't claim I "saw it coming" - but I did argue against all those who said it could never happen.
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Very little has happened yet. Corbyn needs to alter a lot of internal party structures (something that can only be done slowly given that said structures are riddled with the Labour right) before much of political moment for the wider party can happen, let alone for the electorate.
 
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