I joined the Labour Party...

[belboid]

And if it doesn't work out you can always rob people's coats at meetings and set fire to stuff.

Old Labour bank card PINs - 1945
New Labour bank card PINs - 1997
Entrists bank card PINs - 1917

 

[Sue]

Yes, it's not like we've seen any changes lately

Changes that are actually going to make any real difference? Nah.

Btw, you're not claiming Jeremy Corbyn's election is anything to do with you I hope..?

 

[articul8]

Full fat social democracy?

things are moving in the right direction, and have to be pushed further still

 

[articul8]

Changes that are actually going to make any real difference? Nah.

Btw, you're not claiming Jeremy Corbyn's election is anything to do with you I hope..?

It's a vindication of the arguments that people like me have been making, that the Labour left is not dead and irrelevant.

 

[FOSS]

No one really called did they.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

things are moving in the right direction, and have to be pushed further still

The fact that vast chunks of the UK left are joining/engaging in the battle to build a top down, statist, programme of 80's style social democracy is certainly interesting.

 

[articul8]

The fact that vast chunks of the UK left are joining/engaging in the battle to build a top down, statist, programme of 80's style social democracy is certainly interesting.

it's not necessarily top-down/statist - the proposals on ag local energy co-ops point to alternatives

 

[YouSir]

The fact that vast chunks of the UK left are joining/engaging in the battle to build a top down, statist, programme of 80's style social democracy is certainly interesting.

I still think a big factor in that is that a lot of people moving to Labour don't remember anything pre Major and Blair. Not that I'm as young as I was but the historic battles and loses within Labour for the Left are just that to me, history. Not that I'm optimistic in any real way but the prophesies of doom and ominous warnings from the past don't seem like concrete truth to me, yet. And in my life time, where the Left has been a collection of tiny sects, failed coalitions and the odd STW style flair up this does seem like a major shift.

No doubt we'll all learn to be disappointed in time but no doubt it happened to all the wise old heads once too.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I still think a big factor in that is that a lot of people moving to Labour don't remember anything pre Major and Blair. Not that I'm as young as I was but the historic battles and loses within Labour for the Left are just that to me, history. Not that I'm optimistic in any real way but the prophesies of doom and ominous warnings from the past don't seem like concrete truth to me, yet. And in my life time, where the Left has been a collection of tiny sects, failed coalitions and the odd STW style flair up this does seem like a major shift.

No doubt we'll all learn to be disappointed in time but no doubt it happened to all the wise old heads once too.

I can see that. I can see why sneering at those joining Labour because they want real change is both the mark of the cynical wanker and ultimately counter productive.

But - just like with dead end and soul destroying party building of the hapless sects and zombie left lash up's you rightly mention - the tragedy is that all of this energy and desire for change is going to squandered trying to build support and a base for 'leaders' whose entire agenda is speech making and the promotion of an outdated concept of what UK parliamentary social democracy can achieve in the face of global capital and 40 years of unchecked neo-liberalism.

 

[editor]

Hard to get excited about Labour when you're living in Lambeth, although Corbyn gets my vote.

 

[YouSir]

I can see that. I can see why sneering at those joining Labour because they want real change is both the mark of the cynical wanker and ultimately counter productive.

But - just like with dead end and soul destroying party building of the hapless sects and zombie left lash up's you rightly mention - the tragedy is that all of this energy and desire for change is going to squandered trying to build support and a base for 'leaders' whose entire agenda is speech making and the promotion of an outdated concept of what UK parliamentary social democracy can achieve in the face of global capital and 40 years of unchecked neo-liberalism.

What are the alternatives though? I know the usual line I see here is local organisation. Set about building networks and connections that something bigger will emerge from. That's hard to be optimistic about though long term. Most local or campaigning stuff I see, even when it wins, is purely defensive. Save this hospital, that estate etc. Very little which actually reverses the attacks. Labour and Corbyn is any dock in a storm territory really. Though I'd happily quit if I saw a real fight to be had elsewhere.

 

[cantsin]

To be fair my comrades of decades are keeping their comments to themselves on the whole. I expected more abuse but have not got it. I got involved with Class War because it enabled me to express my class hatred well.
Never too much into anarchist theory. Strong trade union background. Labour movement parents. Not too much of a jump. Well maybe it is. Can't see me coming out with LP propaganda any time soon.

I just want to support Jeremy Corbyn and miserise the lives of the right wing cunts who successfully infested the LP for decades.

I won't delude myself. If it all goes tits up then we can examine it here honestly and openly.

if this isn't a wind up....by what criteria are you thinking you're going to judge 'tits up' vs 'not tits up' by ?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

What are the alternatives though? I know the usual line I see here is local organisation. Set about building networks and connections that something bigger will emerge from. That's hard to be optimistic about though long term. Most local or campaigning stuff I see, even when it wins, is purely defensive. Save this hospital, that estate etc. Very little which actually reverses the attacks. Labour and Corbyn is any dock in a storm territory really. Though I'd happily quit if I saw a real fight to be had elsewhere.

Well there aren't any short cuts - and that's the problem for some of the left. They think there is a magic solution to be found in a particular issue, formation or line. There isn't. And until the left re-engage with the class they purport to represent and listen to it instead of lecturing it the trajectory you clearly identify will continue.

I totally agree with you that what Corbyn is signifies a weakness, even a moment of desperation for some on the left. Can you explain how you think Corbyn represents a chance to 'reverse the attacks' given an election is 5 years away?

 

[campanula]

Um, well I also joined but am not really inclined to do much about it. In truth, I really felt largely motivated by a massive vindictive rage against the dire systemic failures me and mine have been though - wage stagnation, insecure employment, housing (especially housing) but have neither the character nor patience to sit in meetings, pontificating. Sadly, I have even less patience to wander about with placards...and find that I am mainly motivated by a childish desire to inflict pain, grief and, at the very least, massive inconvenience...for example, I would dearly like to see Midsummer common populated by a huge diggers community as a protest against the desperate housing crisis in Cambridge - every spare inch is being built on but not actually homes - just investment opportunities for landlords to aquire the favourite developers scam - student accomodation (or, a cheap and tiny hutch with minimal infrastructure which will, inevitably, end up being leased by local authorities down the line to house homeless families).

 

[discokermit]

Well there aren't any short cuts - and that's the problem for some of the left. They think there is a magic solution to be found in a particular issue, formation or line. There isn't. And until the left re-engage with the class they purport to represent and listen to it instead of lecturing it the trajectory you clearly identify will continue.

I totally agree with you that what Corbyn is signifies a weakness, even a moment of desperation for some on the left. Can you explain how you think Corbyn represents a chance to 'reverse the attacks' given an election is 5 years away?

what answers do you have?
re engage with the class? how? by talking about ''re engaging with the class''. obviously not by joining a party with more working class members than the entire british revolutionary left combined? voted for and listened to by more working people than you could ever hope to be?
do we just carry on getting shit on? or do we take the option many people have and commit suicide?

 

[fiannanahalba]

What will you do when it fails?

 

[discokermit]

What will you do when it fails?

that all depends when and how and how much has been built in the meantime.

 

[killer b]

What will you do when it fails?

something else, probably.

 

[newbie]

I wish it were true round my way, not even our two Green councillors appear too realise that fly-tipping, dog shit & tagging are environmental issues. I would vote for anyone who could sort these issues.

hhmm. dunno. There's a corner that's been traditionally used for people to dump stuff, mostly by locals from the estate but occasionally passing builders left half a bathroom or something there. The new and enthusiastic 'community' group have now built a planter to fill that space and are celebrating that fly tipping has ceased. Obviously it hasn't, it's just gone somewhere else. Personally I preferred flytipping and no gentrifiers than the other way round but it's rather hard to argue that anywhere other than Urban. After all, it's an environmental issue, sometimes people had to step into the road to get round it, it was potentially dangerous for children, an eyesore, caused the council to send out a special truck, yada yada, and any slight denting of houseprice increases had nothing to do with it.

 

[fiannanahalba]

something else, probably.

That's what I like to hear. Positivity. So many hobbies and activities to do and of course charities are always looking for volunteers.....

 

[discokermit]

hhmm. dunno. There's a corner that's been traditionally used for people to dump stuff, mostly by locals from the estate but occasionally passing builders left half a bathroom or something there. The new and enthusiastic 'community' group have now built a planter to fill that space and are celebrating that fly tipping has ceased. Obviously it hasn't, it's just gone somewhere else. Personally I preferred flytipping and no gentrifiers than the other way round but it's rather hard to argue that anywhere other than Urban. After all, it's an environmental issue, sometimes people had to step into the road to get round it, it was potentially dangerous for children, an eyesore, caused the council to send out a special truck, yada yada, and any slight denting of houseprice increases had nothing to do with it.

you want to live surrounded by shit just to keep the posh out?
yes, a great answer to gentrification. let's just chuck our rubbish in the street. that'll keep 'em out. a big rat filled mountain of shit. that's where we'll live.


edit: move to tipton. it's all shit with no chance of gentrification.

 

[DotCommunist]

mr trebus held out in his fortress of filth for yeas on end

 

[Pickman's model]

mr trebus held out in his fortress of filth for yeas on end

until the nay-sayers arrived

 

[discokermit]

Positivity.

after thirty years of retreat and destruction of workplace organisation, what do you suggest?

 

[fiannanahalba]

after thirty years of retreat and destruction of workplace organisation, what do you suggest?

Not adding another ten years to that with this idiotic mania to Corbyn and Labour. Start with developing an analysis of the need for change constitutionally while developing something credible that could be backed by real working class people, rank and file workers in trades unions and out of them, developing politics in communities where Labour weighs the vote while neglecting those same communities over generations. Plenty more of course, but why do that when it's hard work and there's Jeremy and the mythical party of the workers to get excited about before reality intrudes in the dream.

 

[belboid]

Not adding another ten years to that with this idiotic mania to Corbyn and Labour. Start with developing an analysis of the need for change constitutionally while developing something credible that could be backed by real working class people, rank and file workers in trades unions and out of them, developing politics in communities where Labour weighs the vote while neglecting those same communities over generations. Plenty more of course, but why do that when it's hard work and there's Jeremy and the mythical party of the workers to get excited about before reality intrudes in the dream.

why is it impossible to do both?

I ask as someone who hasn't rejoined Labour. But, while I hold no illusions in the limits of Labourism, I would recognise that a defeat for Corbyn will be a defeat all anti-austerity, pro-working class, struggles.

 

[marty21]

Old Labour bank card PINs - 1945
New Labour bank card PINs - 1997
Entrists bank card PINs - 1917

I'm as bit confused as to what mine would be - member in the 80s, left after Blair, rejoined after Corbyn

 

[belboid]

I'm as bit confused as to what mine would be - member in the 80s, left after Blair, rejoined after Corbyn

1925

(Tony Benn's birth)

 

[marty21]

mr trebus held out in his fortress of filth for yeas on end

A mate of mine lived around the corner from Mr Trebus, I saw his garden , it was glorious - little tunnels going underneath precariously piled up washing machines and stuff - it was a work of engineering genius!

 

[marty21]

1925

(Tony Benn's birth)

right, that's sorted then