How will you vote in the EU Referendum: Post financial waterboarding edition

[Teaboy]

I've always been against a referendum because I've been concerned the UK populace would vote the wrong way.

lol, are you based in Brussels by chance? Said like a true technocrat. It's an unpleasant and inconvenient thing this democracy isn't it?

 

[kebabking]

I bet you'd say that stood on the deck of the Titanic wouldn't you?

you won't drown on the deck of the titanic. when that deck is no longer available - or on fire for example - then you'd need to look at your options again, but stepping from a dry deck into a wet, cold sea one nanosecond before you have no other choice is the action of a fool.

 

[Zabo]

A resounding NO or OUT. All the window dressing such as the Working Times Directive, E111 etc., is too fool people into believing that the EU is there to serve the people. It isn't. It is there to support an ever expanding neo-liberal Empire. An Empire governed by politicians and bankers and a self-serving elite.

Whenever did your M.E.P. hold a hustings meeting or stand outside your Town Hall? They don't. The arrogant bastards throw a leaflet through the door and expect you to vote for them without any discourse other than through the safe media.

We don't need the Eurocrats to make friendships in Europe. We don't need them to share cultures with each other. We don't need them to have union solidarity not only across the EU but the world.

The EU does not serve this country or any other EU country. It serves those with power and those who abuse power.

 

[MochaSoul]

People should be denied the right to vote on what is possibly the most important democratic decision of our lifetimes because they might vote "the wrong" way?

Oh those damned Greeks shine a great light on EU attitudes to "voting the wrong way".

 

[frogwoman]

Oh those damned Greeks shine a great light on EU attitudes to "voting the wrong way".

The arrogance in that post is astounding and unbelievable dont you think?!

 

[Supine]

People should be denied the right to vote on what is possibly the most important democratic decision of our lifetimes because they might vote "the wrong" way?

I know, it sounds terrible doesn't it!

Have always been concerned the press and the euro sceptics would put across a stronger message than the pro Europeans. I may be wrong, we shall see.

 

[SpackleFrog]

you won't drown on the deck of the titanic. when that deck is no longer available - or on fire for example - then you'd need to look at your options again, but stepping from a dry deck into a wet, cold sea one nanosecond before you have no other choice is the action of a fool.

 

[MochaSoul]

The arrogance in that post is astounding and unbelievable dont you think?!

More like tunnelled vision, really.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I know, it sounds terrible doesn't it!

Have always been concerned the press and the euro sceptics would put across a stronger message than the pro Europeans. I may be wrong, we shall see.

Have you ever thought about why that might be? Has it occurred to you that financial terrorism and technocratic coups are just FUCKING INDEFENSIBLE?

 

[MochaSoul]

Have always been concerned the press and the euro sceptics would put across a stronger message than the pro Europeans. I may be wrong, we shall see.

You don't have to be a right winger twit to be a euro sceptic.

 

[frogwoman]

I know, it sounds terrible doesn't it!

Why did you post it then?

 

[Maurice Picarda]

People should be denied the right to vote on what is possibly the most important democratic decision of our lifetimes because they might vote "the wrong" way?

That's my view, certainly.

 

[frogwoman]

Do you think the scotland referendum shouldn't have happened then?

 

[Supine]

Why did you post it then?

Because I believe it to be true

Some of the reasons why EU membership is beneficial to the UK are hard to explain to the lay person. I'm not talking about people who partake in the P&P forum and have formed their own judgement through research and discussion. I am concerned by people who read shite in the DM headlines or wherever and form their opinion on that alone.

 

[MochaSoul]

That's my view, certainly.

^^... and that's the state of democracy in EU times.

 

[MochaSoul]

Do you think the scotland referendum shouldn't have happened then?

The EU will show the true colours of the SNP yet.

 

[frogwoman]

Because I believe it to be true

Some of the reasons why EU membership is beneficial to the UK are hard to explain to the lay person. I'm not talking about people who partake in the P&P forum and have formed their own judgement through research and discussion. I am concerned by people who read shite in the DM headlines or wherever and form their opinion on that alone.

A lot of people who support the EU are only basing their decision on similar spurious grounds, crap they read in the guardian and such like. Why is that OK?

 

[Supine]

Do you think the scotland referendum shouldn't have happened then?

Not sure about that one tbh. I never got bothered enough to think it out and was happy for Scotland to do as they chose.

This one is different as it would affect me more.

 

[MochaSoul]

 

[belboid]

What EU brake? Honestly, where have people got this idea that the EU is stopping the Tories doing anything?

If the various EU working regs have no effect on the UK, why are the tories trying to get an opt out? They're hardly the greatest achievement in the world but to pretend they just don't exist is idiotic.

After supporting leaving wholeheartedly for years, I was becoming somewhat convinced that this time, I might have to vote to stay. Not because the EU is suddenly any better, but because the campaign against it was overwhelmingly right-wing bullshit, and/or just nonsense. It's one thing to leave because the EU is stopping us from implementing some kind of radicalism, but it's another to leave because of the 'horrors' of free movement of labour. Sadly, it isn't the EU that is stopping us from implementing any kind of radicalism at the moment, so that argument is rather abstract - especially if you are trying to make it in front of people you would effectively be 'sending home by voting for withdrawal.

But, since then, we've had Greece, and the complete and total lack of democracy within the EU is thrust to the fore. It would be better to be chucked out for trying to implement a radical programme, but, fuck it, just walking would do.

 

[butchersapron]

We ain't half been lucky these last few years. First the lib-dems protecting us from the tories and now big European capital. Makes me wonder how we've ended up in this state really, people starving to death, rooting in bins for food, reliant on food banks, people forced out of their homes, dying people make to work etc what with all that protection.

 

[cesare]

It really annoys me when I hear about the horrors of free labour being a reason to leave the EU. No, ffs, it's the horrors of capitalists paying the moving labour less than the national labour that's the fucking problem. Christ.

 

[cesare]

We ain't half been lucky these last few years. First the lib-dems protecting us from the tories and now big European capital. Makes me wonder how we've ended up in this state really, people starving to death, rooting in bins for food, reliant on food banks, people forced out of their homes, dying people make to work etc what with all that protection.

It'll be worse without that protection.

 

[gentlegreen]

Would the Greeks get cheaper money elsewhere ?
Why were they ever let in ?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If the various EU working regs have no effect on the UK, why are the tories trying to get an opt out? They're hardly the greatest achievement in the world but to pretend they just don't exist is idiotic..

This.

If you're making the argument to leave, you have to confront this head-on, imo, not deny it.

 

[MochaSoul]

It really annoys me when I hear about the horrors of free labour being a reason to leave the EU. No, ffs, it's the horrors of capitalists paying the moving labour less than the national labour that's the fucking problem. Christ.

What protections has the EU provided workers against those capitalists? Or is the EU itself one of those capitalists and a mighty powerful one at that?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Some of the reasons why EU membership is beneficial to the UK are hard to explain to the lay person.

Are you deliberately being a cunt?

 

[MochaSoul]

First they came for the Greeks...

 

[cesare]

What protections has the EU provided workers against those capitalists? Or is the EU itself one of those capitalists and a mighty powerful one at that?

I'm not shifting from "No but with concerns" to avid EU protagonist btw. But my memory is long enough to recall the workplace pre-EU employment directives and I'm certain that's where the Tories will want us to go back to.

 

[SpackleFrog]

If the various EU working regs have no effect on the UK, why are the tories trying to get an opt out? They're hardly the greatest achievement in the world but to pretend they just don't exist is idiotic.

They have secured opt outs on loads of stuff. What are they actively trying to opt out of?