How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[Dan U]

already a pic circulating on facebook about Hague, saying he shut the inquiry down when 'half the cabinet' was implicated.

not sure how helpful things like that are really when it is quite an extreme claim like that.

 

[Prole]

Great, someone who actually read the Jillings report and yet manages to add nothing to the debate, other than say this isnt about tories. (Karen Lumley MP on C4 news)

She said the report didn't exist any longer - yet we know a copy was sent to the Independent (don't know if this is the one Eileen Fairweather took 3 days copying out by hand). Fairweather did say she sent pages of it to the media so there must be a lot of this that is well known.

The fusilier's wiki page has been locked btw!

 

[Corax]

Feeling much more pessimistic about it right now. If there's truth to these stories, then there's absolutely fuck all chance of it coming out through an "inquiry". Far too much to lose for that to happen. I'm sure the gears are already spinning at breakneck speed - Crick's backtrack, and the sudden appearance of a witness to a dead man that can be made to fit the description, both stink of it.

The only faint hope I have of full exposure (whatever that may be) is through the intermaweb. A very faint hope, given that it's already riddled with CTs that will make it easy to spin discredit on genuine accounts and discoveries.

If ever there was something useful and constructive that the anon/lulsec/whatever mob could be doing with their time, then this...

 

[Corax]

already a pic circulating on facebook about Hague, saying he shut the inquiry down when 'half the cabinet' was implicated.

not sure how helpful things like that are really when it is quite an extreme claim like that.

Pretty much the opposite of helpful, unless it can be properly substantiated. The more loony claims that can be justifiably ridiculed are out there and circulating widely, the easier that genuine things can be swept up into the same dustpile.

 

[elbows]

Quite. And his corpse stinks of decoy and scapegoat.

Not really. Scapegoat doesnt seem appropriate really given his probable guilt, and I wouldnt say he is much of a decoy either, its not preventing the attention on others from continuing. The dead are going to be named first, and actually I think the stuff about him should be a bigger story than it is, nice to see channel 4 showing video of him sitting next to Thatcher.

 

[elbows]

Crick's backtrack, and the sudden appearance of a witness to a dead man that can be made to fit the description, both stink of it.

I simply cant agree with this, leaves me wondering what you think the 'prize' at the end of this is.

Crick was never the one pushing things forwards in the first place.

Morrison isnt some sudden addition to the story designed to protect others. He was a major Tory, dont get much closer to Thatcher than that.

The appearance of witnesses is always a good thing. Just because they arent naming someone you have in your sights, so what?

 

[savoloysam]

http://google-law.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/andrea-davison-jimmy-savile-serco-and.html

 

[butchersapron]

Feeling much more pessimistic about it right now. If there's truth to these stories, then there's absolutely fuck all chance of it coming out through an "inquiry". Far too much to lose for that to happen. I'm sure the gears are already spinning at breakneck speed - Crick's backtrack, and the sudden appearance of a witness to a dead man that can be made to fit the description, both stink of it.

The only faint hope I have of full exposure (whatever that may be) is through the intermaweb. A very faint hope, given that it's already riddled with CTs that will make it easy to spin discredit on genuine accounts and discoveries.

If ever there was something useful and constructive that the anon/lulsec/whatever mob could be doing with their time, then this...

Absolutely wrong - every media is straining at the leash. Their cowardice to this point is about to be broken. C4 just fucking said it in front of your face.

 

[elbows]

If ever there was something useful and constructive that the anon/lulsec/whatever mob could be doing with their time, then this...

What do you think they are going to do, hack into Max Cliffords brain? Sadly such possibilities dont exist.

 

[Prole]

If Tom Watson stays on this as he did with hacking and others have the courage to join him, then this thing isn't going away, inquiries or no, anytime soon. As the hounded and imprisoned whistleblower on Jersey, Stuart Syvret wrote recently:

And there can be fewer more pertinent examples than the corrupt concealment of child-abuse in Jersey – and the concealment of that corrupt concealment, by the traditional media – the BBC in particular. The unacknowledged key, power of the traditional media – that of omission – has been both exposed, and rendered redundant by Jersey bloggers.

One of the things the media, even at a national level, still does not seem to have grasped, is that their major power (and perhaps their most serious cultural failing) namely the power of omission, is dead.

Let’s be clear – the power of the British media is simply immense, absolutely immense.

For all the fears, some justified, some not, the British media has of a post-Leveson world, in order to be reasonably confident of retaining their freedom, influence – and respect – the mainstream media has to wake up to a whole new paradigm.

That paradigm is this:

The editorial “freedom” that the media used to enjoy - to pick and chose what stories it would not run – that freedom to “omit” – that great power to filter the very type of stories to be published, and thus control the terms of debate – is gone.

Gone forever.

The World Wide Web has killed it; killed that power of omission, stone-dead.

Ex-Senator Stuart Syvret Blog

 

[Corax]

C4 just fucking said it in front of your face.

The telly's just not fucking on.

Morrison isnt some sudden addition to the story designed to protect others. He was a major Tory, dont get much closer to Thatcher than that.

The appearance of witnesses is always a good thing. Just because they arent naming someone you have in your sights, so what?

I don't have anyone "in my sights".
Do you expect there to be a genuine, transparent and honest inquiry? Or do you think that dead people will be found guilty, and many (if not all) of the living will be absolved? My money's on the latter.

 

[Corax]

What do you think they are going to do, hack into Max Cliffords brain? Sadly such possibilities dont exist.

I'm sure there are a lot of emails flying around right now.

 

[where to]

all very quiet from nick Davies, and guardian in general in last week. Wonder what is being prepared from them as we speak . Naming would be up rusbringers street I feel.

 

[elbows]

I'm sure there are a lot of emails flying around right now.

I doubt it. Some of the important lessons for swine this century are: dont email, dont text.

 

[Watchman]

Watson mentioning "mysterious fires" reminds me of an abuse-related case back in (I think) the early '90s down in Brighton/Hove, where a guy who'd been through the care system, followed by the sadly usual round of substance use and incarceration, had straightened himself out, had spoken to a journo from a local paper (Brighton Argus, I think), and had got together with some other survivors of abuse at the same institutions, and set up a shared flat with them.
The fire that killed him and his flatmates was rumoured to have been the work of people who sometimes worked for Brighton's favourite slumlord, but Mr. Highstreet wouldn't have benefited from having a rentable property razed, whereas the abusers of a group of victims who'd decided to tell their tales, and who weren't looking to make mney through compo or through the media, had everything to gain by torching the place.

Just been reading these threads and thought this link might be helpful.
http://newsconfidential.com/FS/FS_Story.php?RequestID=32920
Details are accurate. I know, because I’ve been following this case from the beginning.
My interest? Tim Sharp was my nephew.
The recent Savile revelations make various links, that until now have been tenuous, most interesting.
Nicholas Hoogstraten had connections with several places and locations that are currently coming to light. It’s generally believed that he ordered the arson attack in Hove to cover up some dodgy aspects of his life and activities. At the coroners hearing, several of my family and the families of the victims were intimidated and feared for their safety.
(I’m choosing my words with care)
As an aside, I did some maintenance work at the Bryn Estyn home in Wrexham and its involvement was no surprise to me.
There are more revelations to come, I’m sure.

 

[elbows]

The telly's just not fucking on.

I don't have anyone "in my sights".
Do you expect there to be a genuine, transparent and honest inquiry? Or do you think that dead people will be found guilty, and many (if not all) of the living will be absolved? My money's on the latter.

I expect that it will be very hard for evidence of what actually happened to live up to what some people already suspect happened.

I expect the length of time that has passed, the nature of the evidence, and other stuff suh as the work of the intelligence services to complicate any quest for the truth.

I have no idea what evidence of past coverups may exist. Stuff some people have implied has been shredded recently was probably shredded a very long time ago, if it existed in the first place.

I will have higher expectations of what may unfold if either a copy of the original Jillings report is found and published, or if a completely different line if inquiry, unrelated to the north wales stuff, yields fruit.

 

[Barking_Mad]

all very quiet from nick Davies, and guardian in general in last week. Wonder what is being prepared from them as we speak . Naming would be up rusbringers street I feel.

I think what we're going to see is a real test of the MSM's metal. No doubt there will be lots of journalists doing some very serious digging around and uncovering of various stories which could blow everything wide open. The question is how far are they prepared to go to sever the heads of the political classes? How much pressure will they come under not to run stories and will editors have the courage to name and shame what they uncover or already know?

To them this isn't just about 'the truth', it's potentially about driving a massive wedge into the widening gap that already exists between the people and their government. They really could not have a subject that unites so many peoples views on all sides of the political spectrum. The views of the Daily Mail readers are going to be as near as much identical as those of say, Guardian readers. 'Divide and rule' isn't an option.

If im being optimistic id say their 'news management' wont keep a lid on this one, if im being pessimistic id say they will limit it to a few sacrificial lambs that will satisfy the general public's need to be told 'the truth'. History tells us that the perhaps later is likely, but given everything else that has gone on over the last few years it might just be the straw that breaks the camels back.

 

[Prole]

Jimmy Savile 'quizzed over Yorkshire Ripper murders' | Mail Online

 

[Corax]

I will have higher expectations of what may unfold if either a copy of the original Jillings report is found and published

There was a news story (Mirror?) linked earlier in the thread, where the author talked of copying the whole report out by hand (to protect the source, as all copies were numbered & watermarked) and leaking bit of it. If you know the one I mean, can you remember who the journo was? And have they made any noises recently?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Just been reading these threads and thought this link might be helpful.
http://newsconfidential.com/FS/FS_Story.php?RequestID=32920
Details are accurate. I know, because I’ve been following this case from the beginning.
My interest? Tim Sharp was my nephew.
The recent Savile revelations make various links, that until now have been tenuous, most interesting.
Nicholas Hoogstraten had connections with several places and locations that are currently coming to light. It’s generally believed that he ordered the arson attack in Hove to cover up some dodgy aspects of his life and activities. At the coroners hearing, several of my family and the families of the victims were intimidated and feared for their safety.
(I’m choosing my words with care)
As an aside, I did some maintenance work at the Bryn Estyn home in Wrexham and its involvement was no surprise to me.
There are more revelations to come, I’m sure.

Thanks for that. I thought id heard Hoogstraten before, not exactly your average landlord is he....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_van_Hoogstraten

 

[butchersapron]

I think what we're going to see is a real test of the MSM's metal. No doubt there will be lots of journalists doing some very serious digging around and uncovering of various stories which could blow everything wide open. The question is how far are they prepared to go to sever the heads of the political classes? How much pressure will they come under not to run stories and will editors have the courage to name and shame what they uncover or already know?

To them this isn't just about 'the truth', it's potentially about driving a massive wedge into the widening gap that already exists between the people and their government. They really could not have a subject that unites so many peoples views on all sides of the political spectrum. The views of the Daily Mail readers are going to be as near as much identical as those of say, Guardian readers. 'Divide and rule' isn't an option.

If im being optimistic id say their 'news management' wont keep a lid on this one, if im being pessimistic id say they will limit it to a few sacrificial lambs that will satisfy the general public's need to be told 'the truth'. History tells us that the perhaps later is likely, but given everything else that has gone on over the last few years it might just be the straw that breaks the camels back.

load of wank. say they them who do you mean?

 

[kenny g]

I'm sorry, but the idea that there are stacks of skilled journo investigators out there doing "some real digging" is bullshit. Nothing that has come out in the past few days is anything more than what was already known - including the recent revelations about morrison which were in edwina curries book FFS.

You are not going to get much better than what people are finding out via the interwebs, - read the recent blogs from "real whitby" for some very interesting background to Jimmy Savile and co. In terms of politics await some more evidence of security service blackmail and I am sure "peripheral" royal links.

 

[Prole]

There was a news story (Mirror?) linked earlier in the thread, where the author talked of copying the whole report out by hand (to protect the source, as all copies were numbered & watermarked) and leaking bit of it. If you know the one I mean, can you remember who the journo was? And have they made any noises recently?

Eileen Fairweather: http://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/news-opinion/eileen-fairweather-journalist-who-helped-1416666

 

[butchersapron]

I'm sorry, but the idea that there are stacks of skilled journo investigators out there doing "some real digging" is bullshit. Nothing that has come out in the past few days is anything more than what was already known - including the recent revelations about morrison which were in edwina curries book FFS.

You are not going to get much better than what people are finding out via the interwebs, - read the recent blogs from "real whitby" for some very interesting background to Jimmy Savile and co. In terms of politics await some more evidence of security service blackmail and I am sure "peripheral" royal links.

OMG i have the truth!! Grow up kenny,

 

[kenny g]

Absolutely wrong - every media is straining at the leash. Their cowardice to this point is about to be broken. C4 just fucking said it in front of your face.

load of wank. say they them who do you mean?

OMG i have the truth!! Grow up kenny,

Drinking?

 

[Barking_Mad]

load of wank. say they them who do you mean?

I never had you down as someone who thought the government would get to the bottom of this,but maybe you're right? I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[butchersapron]

Drinking?

Weird collection Kenny. But no, i haven't been drinking. If you think the first point is wrong then crack on with saying so and why.

 

[kenny g]

Interesting how Hague gave Portillo the shadow chancellor position when he was leader of the opposition.

 

[Barking_Mad]

I'm sorry, but the idea that there are stacks of skilled journo investigators out there doing "some real digging" is bullshit. Nothing that has come out in the past few days is anything more than what was already known - including the recent revelations about morrison which were in edwina curries book FFS.

You are not going to get much better than what people are finding out via the interwebs, - read the recent blogs from "real whitby" for some very interesting background to Jimmy Savile and co. In terms of politics await some more evidence of security service blackmail and I am sure "peripheral" royal links.

I'm sure there will be journalists digging about, maybe not hundreds, but perhaps more than your usual story might attract. Having said that I'm not impressed with their efforts so far, like yourself.

 

[Corax]

Re Peter Morrison - Realised I was confusing him with Stephen Milligan. Still entirely suspect the outcome I suggested though (dead condemned, living absolved, maybe a sacrificial lamb).