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How much do you agree with these statements?

Do you agree?

  • Obedience and respect for authority are the most important virtues children should learn — yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    48
  • Poll closed .
Why do you intentionally want skewed responses?
Not me, the original researchers. They wanted people to be forced to take a position. If you give people middle ground, they’ll tend to take it.

Their research was flawed in lots of other ways, anyway. But still fascinating.
 
  • Books and movies ought not to deal so much with the sordid and seamy side of life; they ought to concentrate on themes that are entertaining or uplifting.
  • I seem to be in the minority in my response to this one (and the question is very strange) but I think books and movies should be entertaining. It might be entertaining because it deals with the sordid and seamy side of life so I'm not sure why entertaining is part of the second half of the question. If that word wasn't there, I would have voted with the majority.
 
Not me, the original researchers. They wanted people to be forced to take a position. If you give people middle ground, they’ll tend to take it.

Their research was flawed in lots of other ways, anyway. But still fascinating.
I don't know that people will necessarily take the middle ground. Depends what you present as the middle ground I suppose.
 
So, for those who aren't in on the big secret, these questions are all part of research that was done in the late 40s and published in 1950. People wanted to know how come a whole country could turn to fascism and one research team typothesised that there was an "authoritarian personality" that would be susceptible to it. It seems that their idea that this is where fascim comes from wasn't really right -- in particular, circumstances are far more important than personality -- but there was indeed evidence that the "authoritarian personality" does exist.

In the original study, "authoritarian personality" was synonymous with people who score highly on an anti-semitism scale (remember, this was in the wake of WW2) and an ethnocentrism scale (i.e. belief in the superiority of one's own ethnic group or culture). The researchers then identified that high scores on these scales correlated strongly with what they called the "F-scale", or "potential for fascism" scale. They could predict whether people would be ethnocentric and anti-semitic using questions including the six I posted above -- three in the OP (positive = high F-scale) and three later (negative, positive, negative respectively).

Turns out that the things that really defined the authoritarian were some obvious points, such as deference to authority, obedience to rules, belief in "traditional" values, rejection of the unconventional, rigid thinking, hostility to the weak. But also some stuff maybe less obvious. In the latter category were thinking of the outside world as threatening, being superstitious and being overly concerned with sexual propriety.

So a true authoritarian would answer the question about whether books and movies should not deal with the sordid and seamy side of life with an emphatic yes.
 
It's always best, when reading Adorno, to bear in mind how much he really, really didn't like jazz. Which is enough to call his judgement into question.
Apparently, he was very much the fourth member of the team, coming into it all after the others had already determined the nature of the study. But he got put first on the paper because it was done in alphabetical order. And so one of the most cited papers of all time (over 2000 times, apparently), became forever after known as "Adorno et al"...
 
Apparently, he was very much the fourth member of the team, coming into it all after the others had already determined the nature of the study. But he got put first on the paper because it was done in alphabetical order. And so one of the most cited papers of all time (over 2000 times, apparently), became forever after known as "Adorno et al"...
Indeed.

I actually quite like a lot of his work. But I do think he was wrong about pop culture and jazz.
 
Of the six (no, no, no, yes, yes, no). The one that interests me more is the second question.

While clearly authority should not ever be followed blindly no matter what - I look at the thousands of kids I've taught over more than twenty years, there's a strong correlation between kids who won't accept the principles of hierarchy and authority on face value (and need to argue the toss over everything) and the kids who have an unhappy few years at school and leave not realising their full academic potential. There's something to be said for learning to play the game, rather than endlessly tilting at windmills.
 
While clearly authority should not ever be followed blindly no matter what - I look at the thousands of kids I've taught over more than twenty years, there's a strong correlation between kids who won't accept the principles of hierarchy and authority on face value (and need to argue the toss over everything) and the kids who have an unhappy few years at school and leave not realising their full academic potential.

And a strong correlation between those kids and chaotic out-of-school lives. Sometimes just learning to follow authority isn't an option.
 
Apparently, he was very much the fourth member of the team, coming into it all after the others had already determined the nature of the study. But he got put first on the paper because it was done in alphabetical order. And so one of the most cited papers of all time (over 2000 times, apparently), became forever after known as "Adorno et al"...
2000 isn't that much even in the social sciences. Not that it means much in the first place.

Back on topic, this authoritarian personality theory is bollocks.
 
Indeed.

I actually quite like a lot of his work. But I do think he was wrong about pop culture and jazz.

I like his ideas too. And agree his ideas about pop culture don't quite work but there's still some value in them... a bit too deterministic for one thing. I did an extended essay at uni on his ideas on pop culture using a particular comic as a case study. It's one of my favourite pieces of work I did at uni.
 
So a true authoritarian would answer the question about whether books and movies should not deal with the sordid and seamy side of life with an emphatic yes.
But that's not what (I think) the question asks. If that was the question, then I would answer No to that.
 
These are the bits of psychology that always interested me... along with the famous experiments by Zimbardo, Millgram etc... the bystander apathy stuff. Fascinating.

Those are all pretty widely discredited now I think.

(apologies for calling you out Thimble Queen of 6 years ago)
 
“Discredited” is the wrong term, really. I would say that some of their conclusions have been reinterpreted in light of more contemporary understandings of the social and cultural dynamics at play.
 
“Discredited” is the wrong term, really. I would say that some of their conclusions have been reinterpreted in light of more contemporary understandings of the social and cultural dynamics at play.
Amounts to the same thing really outside of academia
 
Amounts to the same thing really outside of academia
Well, the studies are academic studies from which theoretical models are built, challenged and rebuilt. So the distinction within academia is rather important.

Discredited would mean that there was something wrong with the execution of the study itself. There was nothing wrong with the way Milgram or Darley & Latané executed their protocol. In fact, they are seen as exemplars (if no longer seen as ethical to perform) But subsequent advances in theory have allowed their conclusions to be built on and developed.
 
Wow, this thread takes me back! To right at the beginning of a long old journey.

Yep, I finished the OU degree last summer. I’m currently in the middle of a part time Masters at the LSE. After that’s done, who knows?
No waaay I thought you might have been riffing off this textbook indeed when you dropped the Aldorno being 1st in the alphabet fact haha! I'm sort of studying this module under duress as part of a health sciences degree, so I ended up on this thread looking to see if anyone was here saying anything interesting or new about Millgram's stuff (not really apart from BA saying something cryptic which is always fun) as i do often on urban, but I found lots of stuff elsewhere that shed more light on how I was interpreting what was going on with the participants, my thoughts were similar to this guy Mixon that says they were trusting the experimenter wouldn't actually put the learner in danger and it was all a bit more ambiguous than a straight up WW2 scenario(although I'm sure HOW AMBIGUOUS is up for debate).

But I'm a lot more into cells and pathogens, as is depicted in the oh so dramatic photo I took whilst having a miserable time learning about intelligence testing, I call it "Scotland's most reluctant psychology student takes notes"
Good luck with your masters! I want to do straight Biology next maybe if I can keep this up another 2 years .....20230224_150731.jpg
 
Well, the studies are academic studies from which theoretical models are built, challenged and rebuilt. So the distinction within academia is rather important.

Discredited would mean that there was something wrong with the execution of the study itself. There was nothing wrong with the way Milgram or Darley & Latané executed their protocol. In fact, they are seen as exemplars (if no longer seen as ethical to perform) But subsequent advances in theory have allowed their conclusions to be built on and developed.
I agree with you, common usage does not agree with either of us..
 
Comments like this put people off academia. Cid is no eedgit from what I gather of their posts.
Agreed, with decades of seeing posts, however common usage trumps an accurate description if those reading it are doing so at common usage level.
 
I agree with you, common usage does not agree with either of us..
I’ve never come across a common usage of “discredited” meaning “still regularly referenced and used but the interpretation has been updated”
 
I’ve never come across a common usage of “discredited” meaning “still regularly referenced and used but the interpretation has been updated”
Well I'm starting to think I missed something in the discussion as that's not what I meant at all. But it's sunny outside and the fence fell down yesterday so I'm going to assume I was wrong and go fix the fence.
 
Well, to be clear: Milgram’s experiment, for example, remains very regularly referenced. (Both his protocol and his write-up.) Nobody thinks he was anything but a genius. But in the last 60 years, we’ve had a lot of time to think about what might have been going on in that experiment room above and beyond the perfectly valid conclusions he drew. So we can now reinterpret his results through this more subtle understanding. But none of that discredits his original work.
 
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