How left wing is this forum?

[ItWillNeverWork]

Individual churches and dioceses may not be flooded with cash, but I was under the impression that the church of england has about £2 billion worth of land on its books, and getting on for £7 billion of assets in total.

No doubt it does. I imagine you could make the same case for the National Trust. The parallel between the two organisations is fairly apt, because the CofE, for historical reasons is responsible for the upkeep of some of the most iconic and beloved buildings in England. Would you appropriate National Trust property too?

 

[elbows]

No doubt it does. I imagine you could make the same case for the National Trust. The parallel between the two organisations is fairly apt, because the CofE, for historical reasons is responsible for the upkeep of some of the most iconic and beloved buildings in England. Would you appropriate National Trust property too?

I havent announced my own policies on this matter at this time. I have read something about the Centre for Theology & Community and Housing Justice (a Christian campaign group) doing a report in 2015 that said the CoE should sell its land to help with the housing crisis.

Church of England must sell some off of its land in response to housing crisis, says report

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I havent announced my own policies on this matter at this time. I have read something about the Centre for Theology & Community and Housing Justice (a Christian campaign group) doing a report in 2015 that said the CoE should sell its land to help with the housing crisis.

Church of England must sell some off of its land in response to housing crisis, says report

If the church decides to do that then great. Jesus even said to sell your property and give the money to the poor. But it's a completely different thing for the government to step in and take that property, especially if the intention is to strip the buildings of all religious significance.

 

[kabbes]

I agree with you in regards to the house of Lords, but why on earth would you take away charitable status from the CofE? Are you under the impression that most churches are rich?

I can assure you as someone that works very close with churches that most are in the red, and yet despite this continue to provide both material and spiritual support to the most vulnerable in society.

As for your idea of appropriating churches for community usage, they are used for community use right now. To take them away from believing people would be nothing more than an act of spite, motivated by bigotry.

Your hard work supporting your local church is just free labour that is subsidising the incredibly wealthy institution of the Church.

 

[Pickman's model]

I agree with you in regards to the house of Lords, but why on earth would you take away charitable status from the CofE? Are you under the impression that most churches are rich?

matthew 22:21

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

matthew 22:21

I agree. Charitable status keeps money out of Caesar's hands, allowing the church to do more good works than it otherwise would be capable of doing.

 

[Pickman's model]

I agree. Charitable status keeps money out of Caesar's hands, allowing the church to do more good works than it otherwise would be capable of doing.

if it wants to do good works, then those can become a charity. it's having the religious aspect as a charity to which i object

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

it's having the religious aspect as a charity to which i object

I know. Your motivations are more than clear to me.

 

[Pickman's model]

I know. Your motivations are more than clear to me.

 

[elbows]

Blessed are the ethical portfolio holders.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

View attachment 177668

Cute, I'm sure. But neither Christianity nor Christians are a monolith, so banal sweeping generalisations, however poetically rendered they might be, do not add much at all.

 

[Pickman's model]

Cute, I'm sure. But neither Christianity nor Christians are a monolith, so banal sweeping generalisations, however poetically rendered they might be, do not add much at all.

yes, i know christians are not a monolith - as well as the anglican church there are the various orthodox ones, the catholics, the copts, the lutherans, calvinists, plymouth brethren, moravians, hussites, and doubtless the odd arian here or there as well as dozens if not hundreds of other sorts of christian. a bit like all the sorts of marxist-leninism, none of them fit for human consumption.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

yes, i know christians are not a monolith - as well as the anglican church there are the various orthodox ones, the catholics, the copts, the lutherans, calvinists, plymouth brethren, moravians, hussites, and doubtless the odd arian here or there as well as dozens if not hundreds of other sorts of christian. a bit like all the sorts of marxist-leninism, none of them fit for human consumption.

Fine. Then leave us alone instead of trying to consume us.

 

[elbows]

Ooh parasitic, not analytic.

 

[elbows]

Interlude.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Interlude.

Great song. I felt the same when I was a petulant teenage rebel. I've no idea if Mr Lydon has remained in a state of arrested development since this was written, but I'd like to think life experience has added some nuance to his worldview.

 

[elbows]

Oh its just a phase we are going through, sensible god fearing folk will soon return to the safe confines of the establishment church.

I dont believe in religious persecution, its a terrible idea for a number of reasons that hardly need stating. It also plays heavily into some of the narratives and themes of certain religions. Harking back to the vidid landscape of persecution in the origin stories. Never mind the modern establishment realities, the special status, the privilege, the influence, the power.

 

[elbows]

When Robert Runcie retired as Archbishop of Canterbury, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, encouraged by her former Parliamentary Private Secretary, Michael Alison MP, put Carey's name forward to the Queen for appointment.[citation needed] The religious correspondent for The Times, Clifford Longley, commented that "Mrs Thatcher's known impatience with theological and moral woolliness ... will have been a factor.

Smell the hierarchy, like a panto version of Camerons Big Society.

 

[elbows]

Our Lord of the arbitrary authority, your ethical investment portfolio reminds me of the stench of New Labours ethical foreign policy.

Still, a 7.1% return on your hypocrisy aint bad, even if it turns the other reek.

 

[elbows]

Lords and crowns, kingdoms and flocks, robes and globes and misplaced cocks.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Oh God not more Christian bashing. How original.

Not from me, went to church every Sunday till I was 10 and I don't believe any more but a lot of the principles that inform my politics were learned from there and my Christian mother. I just don't think the fact that a lot of Christians have been involved in trade unionism says a lot when you consider its a predominantly Christian nation, even more so back then.

There is some interesting stuff about how the organisarional forms that were learned through the church, especially methodist, were taken and used in friendly societies and the early trade union movement but I don't think it's the Christian content as much as ways of organising people that was most useful.

You do find Christian theology used to critique capitalism back in the 1700s and 1800s though, I think that's important.

P. S. Stop blaspheming

 

[Pickman's model]

Not from me, went to church every Sunday till I was 10 and I don't believe any more but a lot of the principles that inform my politics were learned from there and my Christian mother. I just don't think the fact that a lot of Christians have been involved in trade unionism says a lot when you consider its a predominantly Christian nation, even more so back then.

There is some interesting stuff about how the organisarional forms that were learned through the church, especially methodist, were taken and used in friendly societies and the early trade union movement but I don't think it's the Christian content as much as ways of organising people that was most useful.

You do find Christian theology used to critique capitalism back in the 1700s and 1800s though, I think that's important.

P. S. Stop blaspheming

you find christian theology being used to justify regicide back in the sixteenth century, e.g. duplessis-mornay, so it's not all useless

 

[elbows]

Not from me, went to church every Sunday till I was 10 and I don't believe any more but a lot of the principles that inform my politics were learned from there and my Christian mother.

I went to a church of england first school and remember being informed by a few things there. Only went to Sunday school once or twice, and my only really vivid memory from first school of the religious aspect was some weird stuff involving oranges, and the word trespass in the lords prayer being a word I was not too familiar with at the time. Oh and there was a trendy vicar that used a mouse puppet as part of his act. I think my mum took us to the local church after we moved house, and was horrified to discover it was a church run by some evangelical nuts, so we only went once. I'm not sure why we went at all really, my family do not practice religion.

Since then I suppose I bumped into some things that gave the impression of being partially informed by a soft church of england morality thing, from the likes of Tony Benn and Dennis Potter. Likewise, some Quaker concepts are of mild interest to me. Faith and rigid dogma I can do without.

Just say no to born again hierarchies.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

The last few posts have made me happy again. See, we can all disagree and yet be friends.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

you find christian theology being used to justify regicide back in the sixteenth century, e.g. duplessis-mornay, so it's not all useless

It's nice to find common ground. Ecumenism for the win.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The Sally Army are cunts, mind.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I went to a youth club run by the pentacostal church when I was about 9 or 10. Lovely people but completely bonkers!

 

[JuanTwoThree]

I am a product of the Low Anglican church and can see how much the dominant religion here in Spain is at odds with the austere tradition of directly praying to one's own God, without the intercession of saints or virgins, without the woo of transubstantiation, the silliness of papal infallibility and so on. The 39 articles describe a fairly simple set up for being a Christian:

The Thirty-Nine Articles

None of which I believe a single word of.

 

[chilango]

. All property should be held in common’ and should be distributed to each according to his needs, as the occasion required. Any prince, count, or lord who did not want to do this, after first being warned about it, should be beheaded or hanged.

 

[elbows]

I would find it much easier to be a simple adherent to crude anti-religious sentiment if it promised an end to sectarianism. But it does not, for religion does not have a monopoly on such things.