How close are we to war breaking out in Europe?

[cupid_stunt]

yeh. and now they say they're going to supply weapons to any resistance there is after the russians invade.

Well, of course we will, that has always been the case, why wouldn't we support the Ukrainians against Russian aggression?

 

[Aladdin]

No, not just on the Russian side of the border, but also in Belarus, Moldovia, and Crimea.

That's not news though. Is it?

Well, of course we will, that has always been the case, why wouldn't we support the Ukrainians against Russian aggression?

Because the UK government has already stated they will not take part in any war in the Ukraine if Russia invades.

 

[Spymaster]

Because the UK government has already stated they will not take part in any war in the Ukraine if Russia invades.

By that they mean troops on the ground. They've been very clear that they're prepared to support them with equipment and have been quite open about having already done so.

 

[Aladdin]

By that they mean troops on the ground. They've been very clear that they're prepared to support them with equipment and have been quite open about having already done so.

So what is Big Mouth Boris going on about when he talks about the potential for the biggest war in Europe? He is war mongering. Putting ideas out there...scare tactics.
It's all a bit Blair and Bush

 

[Pickman's model]

Well, of course we will, that has always been the case, why wouldn't we support the Ukrainians against Russian aggression?

so you'd be quite happy see eg the azov brigade supplied with weapons by the british government.

 

[cupid_stunt]

That's not news though. Is it?



Because the UK government has already stated they will not take part in any war in the Ukraine if Russia invades.

I don't think you are doing well in keeping up with and understanding the events, TBH.

Of course, the UK, US & others will be assisting the Ukrainians, at their request.

What else are we supposed to do? Just let Russia do whatever they want?

 

[Spymaster]

So what is Big Mouth Boris going on about when he talks about the potential for the biggest war in Europe?

You really don't understand what he actually said.

Evidence suggests Russia is planning "the biggest war in Europe since 1945", Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said.
He told the BBC's Sophie Raworth in an interview: "All the signs are that the plan has already in some senses begun."
Intelligence suggests Russia intends to launch an invasion that will encircle Ukrainian capital Kyiv, Mr Johnson said.
"People need to understand the sheer cost in human life that could entail," he said.

 

[platinumsage]

So what is Big Mouth Boris going on about when he talks about the potential for the biggest war in Europe? He is war mongering. Putting ideas out there...scare tactics.
It's all a bit Blair and Bush

Perhaps you should learn a bit about diplomacy and negotiation, and all that entails.

Hint: it's not all about asking to have a friendly chat with your enemy so you can sort everything out.

 

[Aladdin]

"Evidence suggests Russia is planning "the biggest war in Europe since 1945", Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said.
He told the BBC's Sophie Raworth in an interview: "All the signs are that the plan has already in some senses begun."
Intelligence suggests Russia intends to launch an invasion that will encircle Ukrainian capital Kyiv, Mr Johnson said."


Spymaster
You believe him?

 

[bemused]

As far as I can tell (and could be wrong) none of the Western powers has said they'd fight to defend Ukraine. Obviously, I don't want to see young people sent off to die but it does raise the question of what's the point of spending all this money on the armed forces if they only get sent to a place we can bomb people in submission.

 

[Pickman's model]

So what is Big Mouth Boris going on about when he talks about the potential for the biggest war in Europe? He is war mongering. Putting ideas out there...scare tactics.
It's all a bit Blair and Bush

the entire british armed forces number fewer than the soldiers in the russian army in belarus and the ukrainian border with russia. so he's not really warmongering, but he'll see us dragged into the conflagration if it's the last thing he does.

 

[cupid_stunt]

so you'd be quite happy see eg the azov brigade supplied with weapons by the british government.

The plan is being drawn-up with the Ukrainian president, from the link you provided.

Boris Johnson laid bare the case for such a move in a dramatic speech to the Munich security conference where he stated it was in the collective self-interests of the west for any Russian invasion to “fail and be seen to fail”.

He said that any invasion would lead to “a generation of bloodshed and misery” as Ukrainians would fight a fierce campaign to resist Russian forces.

The message was underscored in a meeting between Johnson and the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, on the margins of the Munich conference where the two men predicted a fierce resistance to an invasion.

You are acting like a twat on this thread, and I am not convinced you are being genuine, so I'll not engage with you further.

 

[Aladdin]

the entire british armed forces number fewer than the soldiers in the russian army in belarus and the ukrainian border with russia. so he's not really warmongering, but he'll see us dragged into the conflagration if it's the last thing he does.

Yep. Totally agree.

 

[Pickman's model]

As far as I can tell (and could be wrong) none of the Western powers has said they'd fight to defend Ukraine. Obviously, I don't want to see young people sent off to die but it does raise the question of what's the point of spending all this money on the armed forces if they only get sent to a place we can bomb people in submission.

not sure bombing people into submission really worked in the major wars of this century

 

[a_chap]

What other European Leader is talking about this potentially being the biggest war in Europe since 1945?

Forgive my ignorance but how many wars have there been in Europe since the end of World War 2?

By "war" I don't mean civil wars or ethnic/religious/territorial conflicts such as the one(s) that cause the break-up of Yugoslavia. Or even cod wars.

I mean where one country declares war on another.

 

[Aladdin]

The plan is being drawn-up with the Ukrainian president, from the link you provided.



You are acting like a twat on this thread, and I am not convinced you are being genuine, so I'll not engage with you further.

You're blind.

This is Johnson's Blair moment.

 

[agricola]

That's a valid point, but it washes both ways. Boris Johnson will have plenty of rich chums who would be very displeased to lose their income from washing dirty Russian money.

Exactly.

It might be worth mentioning what happened when James Ibori and his facilitators were convicted - despite the case being blatant, those who investigated them had severe pushback for several years which included allegations, arrests, homes being searched, a Parliamentary Select Committee being told that they were corrupt and national newspapers implying they were bent, too.

That was for a mere couple of dozen million looted from a country we are friendly with (and who were prosecuting him themselves); with this we are talking tens of billions belonging to Putin / political chums of Putin who have spent at least twenty years funding lawyers, accountants, politicians, media types and many other fans of the phrase "ultra high net worth individual".

 

[Aladdin]

Forgive my ignorance but how many wars have there been in Europe since the end of World War 2?

By "war" I don't mean civil wars or ethnic/religious/territorial conflicts such as the one(s) that cause the break-up of Yugoslavia. Or even cod wars.

I mean where one country declares war on another.

That was a quote from Boris today...you'll have to ask him.

 

[Spymaster]

"Evidence suggests Russia is planning "the biggest war in Europe since 1945", Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said.
He told the BBC's Sophie Raworth in an interview: "All the signs are that the plan has already in some senses begun."
Intelligence suggests Russia intends to launch an invasion that will encircle Ukrainian capital Kyiv, Mr Johnson said."


Spymaster
You believe him?

Yes. On balance I think it's highly likely that's happening right now. You know that's not just BJ's opinion, right? It's backed up by intelligence from multiple sources and what we can see happening on the ground.

 

[Spymaster]

This is Johnson's Blair moment.

 

[ska invita]

You really don't understand what he actually said.

What about this?
"“We need to stop Putin because he will not stop at Ukraine"
"'The Baltic States are at risk… the Western Balkans as well."
"He has been very clear, his ambition doesn’t just lead to him taking control of Ukraine, he wants to turn the clock back to the mid-1990s or even before then"
"He wants to go back to the situation as it was before where Russia had control over huge swathes of Eastern Europe"

 

[cupid_stunt]

You're blind.

This is Johnson's Blair moment.

FFS, it's not me that's blind.!

There is only one country threatening war, and if it happens there's only one person responsible - Putin.

 

[Aladdin]

Yes. On balance I think it's highly likely that's happening right now. You know that's not just BJ's opinion, right? It's backed up by intelligence from multiple sources and what we can see happening on the ground.

The whole thing is posturing

 

[a_chap]

That was a quote from Boris today...you'll have to ask him.

No, I don't have to ask him.

I'm asking the people in this forum, thank you.

 

[platinumsage]

Johnson's "war-mongering" from the beeb:

Johnson said Putin may be “thinking illogically” and could not seem to “see the disaster ahead”. He implored the Kremlin to “pull back and engage in serious diplomatic conversation”.

Johnson said Russia’s plan was to launch “the biggest war in Europe since 1945” with an invasion of Ukraine through the eastern region of Donbas and from Belarus in the north, with soldiers encircling the capital of Kyiv.

“I think people need to understand the sheer cost in human life that that could entail – not just for Ukrainians, but also for Russians and for young Russians,” the prime minister said.

 

[Aladdin]

No, I don't have to ask him.

I'm asking the people in this forum, thank you.

Well Boris put forward the date 1945. I assume to bring WW2 to mind and to put fear into everyone in Europe.

 

[Pickman's model]

The plan is being drawn-up with the Ukrainian president, from the link you provided.



You are acting like a twat on this thread, and I am not convinced you are being genuine, so I'll not engage with you further.

given your response to having your metaphor accepted and your condescending tone i think i've been remarkably restrained. #

you've a great and i think unfounded faith that following any russian invasion the plans laid down by the ukrainian president and boris johnson are going to keep arms out of fascist militias' hands. i have no real belief that the ukrainian government as currently constituted will long survive any invasion of ukraine. if you look back to the air war against iraq in 2003 you might have some inkling of the targets the russians will attack - command and control facilities, air defence stations, power grids, water supplies, transport hubs. while the ukrainian government may have popular loyalty i don't suppose it has the ability to cope with russia's dominance in terms of aircraft numbers and missiles. so where will the weapons end up? i wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if we see the azov brigade equipped with us/uk equipment in a few months time. you seem to be in cloud cuckoo land with your apparent faith in the longevity of the ukrainian state apparatus

 

[Spymaster]

What about this?
"“We need to stop Putin because he will not stop at Ukraine"
"'The Baltic States are at risk… the Western Balkans as well."
"He has been very clear, his ambition doesn’t just lead to him taking control of Ukraine, he wants to turn the clock back to the mid-1990s or even before then"
"He wants to go back to the situation as it was before where Russia had control over huge swathes of Eastern Europe"

What about it?

It's not particularly diplomatic stuff but it's not talking-up a war. It's not even sabre-rattling. It's one bloke ham-fistedly calling out another.

 

[Aladdin]

What about it?

It's not particularly diplomatic stuff but it's not talking-up a war. It's not even sabre-rattling. It's one bloke ham-fistedly calling out another.

And that's just what the world needs.

 

[Spymaster]

Johnson's "war-mongering" from the beeb:

Johnson said Putin may be “thinking illogically” and could not seem to “see the disaster ahead”. He implored the Kremlin to “pull back and engage in serious diplomatic conversation”.

Johnson said Russia’s plan was to launch “the biggest war in Europe since 1945” with an invasion of Ukraine through the eastern region of Donbas and from Belarus in the north, with soldiers encircling the capital of Kyiv.

“I think people need to understand the sheer cost in human life that that could entail – not just for Ukrainians, but also for Russians and for young Russians,” the prime minister said.

Aladdin, now that you see this in context, do you now see that your previous interpretation of it was wrong?