Hondo's plans for a huge tower on Pope's Road, Brixton and the Brixton Project
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editor
hiraethified
Get involved! 
www.brixtonbuzz.com
Brixton Project want community involvement in their future Brixton plans – so we’ve invited you all! Online, Fri 4th Dec 2020
Self-elected community leaders, The Brixton Project, have sent out private invites to selected individuals and organisations for a planning meeting “to establish the process for community inv…
www.brixtonbuzz.com
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Get involved!
Brixton Project want community involvement in their future Brixton plans – so we’ve invited you all! Online, Fri 4th Dec 2020
Self-elected community leaders, The Brixton Project, have sent out private invites to selected individuals and organisations for a planning meeting “to establish the process for community inv…
There are already forums to deal with these issues.
Brixton Neighborhood Forum and Brixton Society.
Plus some local groups.
Time of meeting is middle of the day. Not exactly great if one is working.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Get involved!
Brixton Project want community involvement in their future Brixton plans – so we’ve invited you all! Online, Fri 4th Dec 2020
Self-elected community leaders, The Brixton Project, have sent out private invites to selected individuals and organisations for a planning meeting “to establish the process for community inv…
Also on on planning the Council has obligation to consult communities on planning issues. So what is the new organisation the BP want to set up supposed to be about?
athletecured
Active Member
hi Gramsci the thinking is that whatever obligations or forums or legislation that exist already are obviously not working. otherwise how would we be in the position that we're in? beholden to asset managed capital with no real community voice.
this is an attempt to do something different, that moves brixton beyond the attritional land-grab/protest dynamic. your point about the brixton society and neighbourhood forum is spot-on – that’s why they are already part of the nascent community. hope you can come on friday – it’ll be the first of several i'm sure. lunchtime was picked so that people might be able to nab some time in the middle of the day (or maybe even skive off if working from home) rather than the evening cos evenings are already busy enough, and most people are thoroughly sick of screens by then – nothing more sinister than that. whatever time was chosen was not going to work for some people.
please do come on friday if you can. if you can’t we will circulate a recording of the meeting (assuming people are happy for the meeting to be recorded) and/or minutes. this is a genuine attempt to try and build something better, and more resilient – and it's great that the buzz did the piece the other day – when we invited mike (i don't think he’s going to come, he doesn’t 'do zoom') about ten days ago asked him to pass on the invite to anyone who might be interested.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I would like to know more about what this means:
On the "attritional land grab/ protest dynamic"
Over years I taken part in consultations on Brixton Masterplan, Brixton SPD and the failed Co production of plan for the Brixton Station road area ( Brixton Central)
Co Production on Brixton Central organised by Council failed as Network Rail pulled out and decided to evict the shopkeepers in the arches.
The attritional dynamic is due to way the economy works. This is not fault of the Council. Its how the system works.
Big business like NR and Hondo are going to behave like any large profit making business will behave.
IMO the Nour and Stop the Tower campaign are not at fault. The response by them is rational response given how the economy works. In case of Nour they played a large part in saving them.
Im not saying that is all of it. Behind the scenes the MP and local Cllrs worked to get a compromise.
IMO they could not have done this without the more combative Nour Campaign.
so imo let a thousand flowers bloom.
Both "attritional" protest and more quiet lobbying overlap and work.
Im not sure I want one group that is sanctioned by the Council to deal with these issues.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Another issue:
The way the Planning department work now is that they work to closely with developers.
A reform of Planning is needed.
The Hondo application was against locally agreed planning guidelines.
It should never have gone to committee.
Nor should a local group like Brixton Project supported it.
The planning department along wth the Regeneration department ( who supported the application) are making poliitical decisions that over turn planning guidelines agreed with local community.
The Hondo application was a deviation from agreed planning guidelines. Officers took decison that the inward investment and "community" benefits were enough to ditch agreed planning guidelines. This is political decision. Given way planning works no wonder it got attritional. That is fault of Lambeth.
ive emailed my local Cllrs about this to no avail.
Planning departments and Regeneration department don't have to work like this.
The Hondo application was first big test of the Brixton Masterplan/ SPD and Local Plan,
The officers and some of the Labour Cllrs failed the community in pushing this through.
On the attritiional dynamic - this would not be inevitable if some Cllrs and officers did their job properly.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
What Im saying is make the existing structures work properly.
A new organisation approved by unreformed Council will be of no use. Or worse will be used by Council to add legitimcy to what Regen and Planning want to do along with some of more Progress type Cllrs.
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editor
hiraethified
It was great that you engaged in the comments on the Buzz article, but disappointing when you once again shirked the question I asked:
I also find it weird that you're suddenly going with the narrative that it's great that Buzz did this piece, when you sent out no actual press releases like you would do if you actually wanted it publicly shared.
editor
hiraethified
Especially one getting unspecified funding from a multinational developer with dodgy practices to help smooth through a planning application for a huge tower that the community didn't want, and one who refuses to be transparent about their funding and finances. And, like you say, one who has close links to the council
athletecured
Active Member
Hi Gramsci a couple of thoughts.
1. Please do come on Friday
2. Hear your points about previous failed attempts to do similar things – should that put us off trying again?
3. “Its how the system works.” – that shouldn’t stop us trying to change the system though?
4. I don’t for a minute think that protest is invalid. I think it's crucial – but it’s not the only way. We need multiple counter-narratives. You may’ve seen in some of the online chatter, people have pointed out my involvement in XR – where nonviolent direct action has from the beginning gone hand-in-hand with regenerative behaviour and more 'system'-facing organisation. It’s the my-way-or-high-way this process seeks to address. But it will only do it with people in the room. That’s why the XR Citizens Assembly demand is so dangerous.
5. Mainly agree with you though.
6. The Brixton Project didn’t support the Hondo Tower application.
7. This isn’t a group 'sanctioned' by the council. This is a group that seeks to bring all interested parties to the same space to change things for the better. It’ll be as good as the people that show up.
Please do!
athletecured
Active Member
This is like a particularly dispiriting game of whack-a-mole!
I wrote directly to you Mike on the 19th November, inviting you to the meeting, together with the request that you pass on the details to anyone who might be interested. But that’s not good enough now because it wasn’t in a (presumably more respectful) press release
?And regarding not telling you how much “unspecified funding” the Brixton Project has received from anyone, I’ve been clear about that. I was completely happy to while our conversation was friendly. But your questioning became pushy and your messages were increasingly unkind, so I changed my mind.
Just because I won’t tell you something does not mean there is anything to hide. If you came to any of the meetings you’ve been invited to we might even (heaven forfend) start doing decent work together!
Right, I’ve said my bit. Athletecured can retire its avatar for another decade or so. It’d be great to see you on Friday Mike. This really is a genuine thing we’re trying to get off the ground, and it will be all the better if you are involved.
editor
hiraethified
That's not how it happened at all - and I'm happy to post up the entire transcript for all to see, unedited. Is that OK with you?
But you're completely missing the point (while once again evading the question). It shouldn't be about whether I'm being 'pushy' or not. It's about a self elected community group refusing to be transparent about their finances and not just to me, but to the entire community they purport to represent.
Add in the fact that you've set yourselves up to legitimise and facilitate a hugely unpopular mega-development from a US company where you look set to benefit from free office space and influence, I'd say I was absolutely right to ask these questions on behalf of the community.
And it should be noted that if I hadn't kept asking, it may never have come to light that you were being financially and materially backed by Hondo, something you're still refusing to be transparent about.
If you want any sort of credibility, all of this should have been announced from the start.
So, is it OK if I publish the full transcript of our WhatsApp conversation, because I really don't like the way you're twisting it.
editor
hiraethified
Wait, what?
Brixton Project ‘community’ group team up with developers to facilitate construction of unpopular 20-storey Hondo tower block
Community groups are concerned that there has been nothing like enough community consultation over the imposition of Hondo’s 20-storey tower over Electric Avenue. Now an emailed ‘survey…
www.brixtonbuzz.com
LIVE Blog as Lambeth Council Planning Applications Committee makes decision on Hondo Enormo-Tower
22:32 RIP Brixton Community. 22:28 Chair Cllr Wilcox proposes that PAC accepts the Officer recommendations to approve, with a condition about ‘flipping’ to residential accommodation, an…
www.brixtonbuzz.com
Brixton Project: the ‘community’ group PAID by Hondo to support their unpopular 20-storey development
On Monday, we ran a piece highlighting how the Brixton Project had teamed up with Hondo to lend credibility to the company’s bid to build a massive 20 storey tower block that contravenes Lamb…
www.brixtonbuzz.com
wurlycurly
diss member
It's the sheer arrogance of the Brixton Project that gets me. A "community group" standing tall (20 storeys tall) against more than 1,000 local objections and thousands of local signatures, and lining their pockets at the same time. Then having the gall to come on a local forum with thousands of members, have a pop at the editor and, bizarrely, deny that they supported Hondo's application. They should be ashamed of themselves.
wurlycurly
diss member
"We've screwed up big time by standing against the overwhelming view of the community while lining our own pockets. I know, let's try to patronise the Urban 75 editor and Gramsci into joining us. They would add instant local credibility."
editor
hiraethified
Now on Buzz. I'm proud of the work that this site does and the writers who contribute. No cash from Hondo needed to serve the community!
Developer-backed The Brixton Project now claims that they ‘didn’t support the Hondo Tower application’
Developer-backed The Brixton Project now claims that they ‘didn’t support the Hondo Tower application’
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I would attend but am working. Unless it is not busy that day I will not make it.
On multiple counter narratives.
The opposition to Hondo planning application was imo good example of multiple counter narratives working well. From Stop the Tower protest through to more considered objections to the actual application from groups like Brixton Society. Looked to me that the opposition to the Hondo Tower brought local people together. Despite the disagrements that go on this site and in Brixton the Hondo Tower is example of unity through multiple narratives on this issue.
So I dont see need for new organisation based on going beyond the as you say "attritional" dynamic,
The opposition to Hondo showed imo the dynamic working.
So why need for new organisation?
One that apparently Briton Project are talking to Lambeth about.
Ive asked what this means in previous post. What are these ongoing conversations?
This is happening before community are being asked if this is something they want.
There has been mis understanding of my previous post.
Im concerned that talks are underway by Brixton Project about some kind of group with the Council.
Im concerned that Council might quite like the idea of a group. Which could mean if you don't want to be part of out you are effectively excluded from discussion of future of Brixton.
That is what I mean by concept of Council sanctioned group.
Seen this happen over other issues.Where Council try to set up "independent" community groups when existing ones get to troublesome.
You say Brixton Project did not support the Hondo application. To clarify what was Brixton Project view on the application? Oppose it?
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DietCokeGirl
Fishing in the rivers of life
Wow - skive off work as a community engagement tactic! Getting a vibe thr target audience for this is self employed people / people working from home with flexible arrangements.
Whats the tactic to gather the views of the very many people working in jobs that dont afford them the luxery of sitting at a laptop taking long lunch breaks? Cleaners, shop staff, food service, care workers, list goes on.....
The statment that most people are sick of screens by evening implies your world is very much a bubble of a certain demographic.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
On XR.
My reading of Hallam is that he saw democracy as not working to deal with climate change.
Non Violent Direct Action was required. If enough took part in this government would be unable to govern.
At that point deal would be made. The existing State would bring in binding law for zero carbon in X years.
As politicians, according to Hallam, are to easily swayed by the populace this would be dealt with by abandoning electoral democracy and replacing it with Citizens Assemblies.
This would be democracy drawn by lot.
Each Assembly would have specific issues to deal with and would choose from options deicded by experts.
This would get around the rough and tumble of electoral democracy.
It is moving to a form of Green dictatorship at worst. There are some anti immgrant sentiments from Hallam for example.
So yes Peoples Assemblies demand has dangers.
editor
hiraethified
The divisive, on-trend, hipster language they use underlines the fact that they are only interested in attracting a certain demographic, while excluding the majority of long-standing locals who have no idea what any of this wank-gibberish means:
I've sat at a judge at what is considered one of the most prestigious design awards in the UK, and I've very little idea what this bollocks is about, so how are 'ordinary' people supposed to make sense of it? Or want to get involved? It's designed to intimate and segregate, which is the very, very last thing a self elected 'community' group should be doing.
athletecured
Active Member
Totally fair point – we just have to start somewhere. For this to work it’s going to take an enormous effort, and it’s certainly not going to be achieved in one or two Zoom meetings. I do realise that I’m on something of a hiding-to-nothing popping my head up here, or over on Buzz, but please don’t think we’re not also working out how to involve everybody who can’t make a Friday lunchtime. In the meantime we’ll be recording Friday’s session for anyone who can’t make it (camera-off/pseudonym/use the chat if you don’t want to be identified) – and there'll be follow-up gatherings in due course.
That’s it, I really am retiring now. Can’t get into XR arguments too – and "wank-gibberish" (see posts above) means I can bow-out on a high.
Do try and come if you can.
editor
hiraethified
Why do you have to start anything? Who empowered you to create this group and self-elect yourselves to represent the Brixton community - the very community who you refuse to be transparent with about your finances? What's in it for you (apart from control of the Hondo space, unspecified income from Hondo and a growing influence over Brixton affairs, of course)? And why are you lying about your well documented support for the tower?
And once again you've sidestepped answering the entirely reasonable question about how much Hondo has secretly been funding you, and now you're dismissing out of hand my valid criticism about the 'wank-gibberish' language you use. If you want to engage the whole community, then don't use language and phrases that the vast majority won't understand.
Just like a slippery politician, you're trying to give the impression of engaging while saying absolutely nothing. If you can't take criticism from the community you're putting yourselves forward to represent and won't even consider the issues being raised, then you have no mandate to represent them.
This appears to be all about progressing the power and influence of the Brixton Project brand.
nick
Pleomorphic Adenomas R us
The divisive, on-trend, hipster language they use underlines the fact that they are only interested in attracting a certain demographic, while excluding the majority of long-standing locals who have no idea what any of this wank-gibberish means:
I've sat at a judge at what is considered one of the most prestigious design awards in the UK, and I've very little idea what this bollocks is about, so how are 'ordinary' people supposed to make sense of it? Or want to get involved? It's designed to intimate and segregate, which is the very, very last thing a self elected 'community' group should be doing.
Liked for holocratic and sortition.
I will gladly march against any organisation that destroys the language with such bullshitty use of random words that were found whilst idly perusing on line dictionaries whilst stoned
nick
Pleomorphic Adenomas R us
But seriously
Hey athletecured : I'm worried that the independence of Brixton Project is being called into question over this tower thing.
Please can you clarify things by answering 2 questions:
1) I read that Brixton Project was “paid in June by Hondo for a proposal for programming the community space” . How much was paid?
2) Have any other funds moved between Hondo (and its related parties) and Brixton Project? If so, please give detail and context
I suspect that an official "NO" in respect to question 2 would help to clarify things for all concerns and to assuage certain concerns of many local people
Thanks
Hey athletecured : I'm worried that the independence of Brixton Project is being called into question over this tower thing.
Please can you clarify things by answering 2 questions:
1) I read that Brixton Project was “paid in June by Hondo for a proposal for programming the community space” . How much was paid?
2) Have any other funds moved between Hondo (and its related parties) and Brixton Project? If so, please give detail and context
I suspect that an official "NO" in respect to question 2 would help to clarify things for all concerns and to assuage certain concerns of many local people
Thanks
editor
hiraethified
I had to look it up, but I think what the really want is to shift the notion of power to themselves, so they're in control of the creative space with unaccountable financing and non-transparent funding from mega-developers, and also positioned nicely to scoop up contracts thanks to their close - and equally non transparent - relationship with the council.
Don't forget that it was their chums on the council who proposed the Brixton Project consultation in the first place. Cosy.
editor
hiraethified
Requoted. I like transparency so I'm happy for this conversation to be made public.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
You brought up XR no me.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Thing is I think Ive been reasonable. You haven't answered my specific questions I notice.
This is not my idea. It comes from Brixton Project. So I don't think it is unreasonable to ask questions. That does not constitute portraying this as being a "hiding for nothing".
I would also like to point out concerns about Brixton Project have been raised with me over the involvement of Brixton Project with Hondo off these boards by people who do not post here.
Everyone makes mistakes. If Brixton Project said they tried to work with developer on a planning application and it turned out to be a mistake. But it was a learning experience. I would accept that.
But I don't see Brixton Project do that.
So far all you have said is that BP did not support the application. Technically that is correct. But working as a consultant for the applicant to deliver the community benefit side of the application is not a neutral position if BP is now taking a lead on developing community say in Brixton re its future development.
Everyone needs a day job but perhaps working for a developer in Brixton was not such a good idea. Would have been better to do it out of the borough.
So any community stuff you do here is separate.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I'm intriged by the history of The Brixton Porject, it's status as a community group and registered community interest company. THE BRIXTON PROJECT CIC - Officers (free information from Companies House)
It will be observed that is is a recent phenomenon (26th April 2019) - but it seems to derive from a much older and more widely recognised community interest company BRIXTON POUND CIC - Officers (free information from Companies House)
The first mentioned is The Brixton Project - directors Philip Dolman, Sarah Henderson, Margherita Poggialli, Tania Taylor and Charlie Waterhouse (in the order given by Companies House).
The second is Brixton Pound CIC - trading from about 2012, which has had 20 directors - all of whom left or resigned, except Chralie Waterhouse and Tania Taylor.
I would like to know if the Brixton Project is a sort of re-birth of Brixton Pound to meet the needs of Hondo Tower operatives? Has the Atlantic Road vegetarian café of yore, which provided meeting spaces to anti gentrifiers now morphed into a think tank to ginger up Brixton locals to demand a New Manhattan in Brixton?
It will be observed that is is a recent phenomenon (26th April 2019) - but it seems to derive from a much older and more widely recognised community interest company BRIXTON POUND CIC - Officers (free information from Companies House)
The first mentioned is The Brixton Project - directors Philip Dolman, Sarah Henderson, Margherita Poggialli, Tania Taylor and Charlie Waterhouse (in the order given by Companies House).
The second is Brixton Pound CIC - trading from about 2012, which has had 20 directors - all of whom left or resigned, except Chralie Waterhouse and Tania Taylor.
I would like to know if the Brixton Project is a sort of re-birth of Brixton Pound to meet the needs of Hondo Tower operatives? Has the Atlantic Road vegetarian café of yore, which provided meeting spaces to anti gentrifiers now morphed into a think tank to ginger up Brixton locals to demand a New Manhattan in Brixton?
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