Hondo's plans for a huge tower on Pope's Road, Brixton and the Brixton Project

[Tulster218]

Claiming its a factor (though really not in this case) would be okay but you said it was the only reason. Plenty of other things make housing unaffordable such as the cost of land, cost of construction & what people are being paid. There’s no utopia where if we just allowed building everywhere it would all be fine.

Sure, but silencing the NIMBYs (also known as planning reform) is by far the biggest factor.

But we're getting off-topic.

 

[teuchter]

Exactly. And the context was a tower block.

The choice here is not between "suburban development" and "tall tower block" though.

The question is how high would be acceptable in this particular location. How would you go about judging that, as a matter of interest?

 

[edcraw]

Sure, but silencing the NIMBYs (also known as planning reform) is by far the biggest factor.

But we're getting off-topic.

It really really isn’t.

 

[Tulster218]

That contained zero housing, affordable or otherwise.

I get that.

The choice here is not between "suburban development" and "tall tower block" though.

The question is how high would be acceptable in this particular location. How would you go about judging that, as a matter of interest?

I love skyscrappers. The taller the better. People get used to them. I think the loss of sunlight and the feelings of being enclosed or whatever, are relatively trivial compared with the benefits. I used to live near a tower block, and I don't think anyone really noticed it very much.

I haven't been to Nine Elms yet, so maybe I will, and I'll see if it changes my mind. But for now I'm saying the sky's the limit.

(But I'm not an anarchist or communist. It has to be by popular consent.)

 

[teuchter]

I get that.


I love skyscrappers. The taller the better. People get used to them. I think the loss of sunlight and the feelings of being enclosed or whatever, are relatively trivial compared with the benefits. I used to live near a tower block, and I don't think anyone really noticed it very much.

I haven't been to Nine Elms yet, so maybe I will, and I'll see if it changes my mind. But for now I'm saying the sky's the limit.

(But I'm not an anarchist or communist. It has to be by popular consent.)

What do you mean by popular consent?

 

[Tulster218]

What do you mean by popular consent?

I'm just saying don't break the law, and when elected politicians make decisions, they have to take into account what people think. It's the system we have at the moment. I'm not suggesting political revolution, that's all I meant.

The way to get more stuff built is by persuasion, which is what I'm trying to do now. But it's not going very well.

 

[Gramsci]

The Hondo tower had ZERO affordable office space and that was one of the reasons it was opposed.

Actually the Hondo tower was going to be policy compliant on providing a percentage of affordable office space.

Today is your last chance to stop Hondo building its monstrous, over-sized tower in Brixton

Today (17th Dec) is the last chance to object to hugely unpopular plans to build a massive 20-storey monstrosity in the heart of Brixton. After Sadiq Khan ‘called in’ Lambeth’s no…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

Council do have a policy for affordable workspace to be part of new private developments such as this. Which apply to all developers.

 

[Gramsci]

I guess I'm a conservative within a small c, though vote Green or Lib Dem.
I don't normally post on this thread - but I would have thought its obvious that Sports Direct is hardly a community asset worth preserving.
That said what irks me is the council and its consultants have been endlessly consulting about this site, the site that is now Pop Brixton, the Arches etc etc.
Thousands if not hundreds of thousand of pounds of consultancy have been spent and many local people have spent hours in consultation meetings being guided at "tables" to produce community aspirations for the Central Brixton area in keeping with the requirements of Lambeth's Planning Department. All this in 2014.
See this post from Gramsci in 2014. Brixton Rec/central Brixton consultation and the 'Rec Quarter' proposals

What always happens - the council planners end up doing a dodgy deal with some nouveau riche outsider who knows better than what the residents took hours to express.
It happened over Pop Brixton, it happened over the Railway Arches - and you are moaning now because it's not all plain sailing for Taylor McWilliams and his architect David Adjaye.

I see there used to be a poster on the 2014 thread called SpamMisery who pissed people off with their spurious "progressive capitalism". Are you perhaps the very same?

Agree with what you say here. Its my experience as well.

I was at a meeting with officers and rep from London Square recently about the Pop site. Got told by the officer that the Brixton Masterplan and Brixton SPD were out of date. They didnt really seem to be aware of them until I brought it up. Got the feeling they never looked at them.

I agree thousands get spent on these consultations and then , if planners feel like it , they effectively bin them.

Its why Ive taken little part in the consultations about the Pop/ International House site. Despite being asked. Im simply sick and tired of going to these meetings now.

They grind me down after a while. Being regarded as "difficult". Its not pleasant doing this kind of thing. And can make one cynical about whole process.

Im not one to rant at meetings. But I am one to read up the stuff and ask pertinent questions. They hate it.

 

[editor]

Actually the Hondo tower was going to be policy compliant on providing a percentage of affordable office space.

Today is your last chance to stop Hondo building its monstrous, over-sized tower in Brixton

Today (17th Dec) is the last chance to object to hugely unpopular plans to build a massive 20-storey monstrosity in the heart of Brixton. After Sadiq Khan ‘called in’ Lambeth’s no…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

Council do have a policy for affordable workspace to be part of new private developments such as this. Which apply to all developers.

According to the Save Nour group, Hondo got in the lawyers when Lambeth asked for just 10% of the space to be affordable. And let's not forget Lambeth have a history of pathetically caving in to big companies, just like they were willing to completely override their own planning rules once Hondo came a-knocking:

Barratt Homes, Brixton Square and the fight to retain affordable housing in Brixton. Please sign the petition. -

Urban 75, Brixton Buzz and Brixton Blog are partnering to protest against Barratt Homes’ application to water down the provision of social and affordable housing, including the conversion to ‘affordable rent’ tenure of 13 social rent flats, at its new development ‘Brixton Square’, on Coldharbour...

www.urban75.org

 

[editor]

I'm just saying don't break the law, and when elected politicians make decisions, they have to take into account what people think. It's the system we have at the moment. I'm not suggesting political revolution, that's all I meant.

But that's exactly what happened with the Hondo tower and you haven't stopped whining since.

 

[Gramsci]

According to the Save Nour group, Hondo got in the lawyers when Lambeth asked for just 10% of the space to be affordable. And let's not forget Lambeth have a history of pathetically caving in to big companies, just like they were willing to completely override their own planning rules once Hondo came a-knocking:

Barratt Homes, Brixton Square and the fight to retain affordable housing in Brixton. Please sign the petition. -

Urban 75, Brixton Buzz and Brixton Blog are partnering to protest against Barratt Homes’ application to water down the provision of social and affordable housing, including the conversion to ‘affordable rent’ tenure of 13 social rent flats, at its new development ‘Brixton Square’, on Coldharbour...

www.urban75.org

Thats hearsay.

Application was to be opposed due to fact that it was a deviation from the Local Plan,

Anything else is conjecture.

 

[editor]

Sure, but silencing the NIMBYs (also known as planning reform) is by far the biggest factor.

You haven't been able to give a single relevant example of affordable housing or office space being stopped by NIMBYS in Lambeth, but you never, ever stop going on about them.

 

[editor]

Thats hearsay.

Application was to be opposed due to fact that it was a deviation from the Local Plan,

Anything else is conjecture.

Sorry, but I really see no reason to doubt what the Save Nour group said. And it's clearly highlighted below:

 

[Gramsci]

Sorry, but I really see no reason to doubt what the Save Nour group said. And it's clearly highlighted below:

Is that not Hondo objecting to the policy? The policy on affordable workspace did go out for consultation. Is this Hondo objection to the policy that Council was advocating?

There is a difference.

From what I can see the revisions to application did include affordable workspace. It might not be enough. And the Council policy might not be good enough. But that is a separate discusssion.

All I was correcting was the zero office space comment.

 

[Gramsci]

(But I'm not an anarchist or communist. It has to be by popular consent.)

Im not an Anarchist but thought popular consent was big part of Anarchism.

 

[Gramsci]

Post in thread 'Brixton news, rumours and general chat' Brixton news, rumours and general chat

Here is Tulstar arguing that its the Local Plan and planning in general that is holding up new developments.

Later Tulstar argues that developers should be just allowed to get on with it. ie not be held back by planning guidelines which are effectively a Nimbys charter ( my word for it).

Tulstar is some kind of free market libertarian.

Had me on ignore for quite some time now. So I know wont be reading this.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Heard the rumour about Hondo towers architect. So it sounds like the dropping of the plans is nothing to do with nimbys or planning controls. Any info anyone?

Does this will be back with new application when he has a new architect?

 

[editor]

Heard the rumour about Hondo towers architect. So it sounds like the dropping of the plans is nothing to do with nimbys or planning controls. Any info anyone?

Does this will be back with new application when he has a new architect?

Hondo withdrawing their plans has nothing to do with the accusations against the architect.

 

[editor]

Well, here's a £100m fuck up that Adjaye did nicely out of and a good lesson for Brixton:

The luxury outlet was built with £1.5 million in post-riot funding – but three years after it opened, most of its units are lying empty. What next for Hackney’s ‘bronze elephant’? Ella Jessel reports
David Adjaye’s £100 million Hackney Walk was billed as a ‘world-class’ fashion mecca that would bring hundreds of jobs to a row of disused railway arches in Hackney.

It was built – although never fully completed – with £1.5 million of funds from City Hall earmarked for boroughs worst-hit by the 2010 riots. But today, just three years after it opened its doors, most of the units stand empty. In a recent report on its demise, local newspaper the Hackney Gazette described it as a ‘ghost town’.

Even Hackney Council, which championed the scheme and funded it, has admitted things haven’t worked out. Its planning chief said he shared local people’s concerns that the street had ‘too many buildings sitting empty’.

The idea for a fashion project was not entirely plucked from the sky. There were already nearby outlets for designers Burberry, Aquascutum and Pringle in Chatham Place, just off Morning Lane.

It was hoped that the scheme would create a creative ‘cluster’ and turn the unremarkable section of road into a global fashion hub. In promotional material from the time, Adjaye said the proposals would offer a ‘beacon’ for Hackney central.

Adjaye’s masterplan, approved in 2013, was broken up into phases with the first involving the redevelopment of the railway arches on the north side of Morning Lane (see diagram below). The second involved building two seven-storey buildings on the south side, either side of Chatham Place, on the site of a former pub used as the Pringle knitwear factory outlet and an 1850s gravel pit chapel in use by Aquascutum. However, this key chunk of the project was never built.

In 2014, plans were approved for a third phase of the fashion hub project, designed by Pringle Richards Sharratt (PRS) comprising two ‘mirror image’ infill buildings on either side of the main row of arches. Once built, one of these became the Nike building while the other was never let.

The scheme had plenty of critics. Many argued that the £2 million of regeneration cash should be spent on projects that would more directly benefit the local community, on youth clubs for example or for the businesses damaged in the rioting. A petition against the scheme claimed it aimed ‘only to cosmetically restore Hackney’s post-rioting image rather than invest and serve the community.’

There was also concerns over the lack of joined-up thinking behind the designs. Commenting on the planning application in 2013, local conservation group the Hackney Society said the scheme was a ‘grand, exciting and innovative idea, but rapidly implemented in either the wrong place or without the major infrastructure changes needed to support it’.

The fashion hub opened in 2016 in the Adjaye-refurbed arches and PRS-designed infill units with a range of outlet stores for high-end brands such as Zadig and Voltaire, Gieves and Hawkes, luxury cashmere brand Colombo, Nicole Farhi, and Matches.

But one by one the retailers have dropped out until today just four of 12 remain: Nike, Present, Matches and Joseph. The Hackney Gazette reported that the Present menswear store had been boarded up after being ram-raided twice.

Hackney Walk: How David Adjaye’s fashion mecca ended up a ghost town

The luxury outlet was built with £1.5 million in post-riot funding – but three years after it opened, most of its units are lying empty. What next for Hackney’s ‘bronze elephant’? Ella Jessel reports

www.architectsjournal.co.uk