wurlycurly
diss member
Nice work, Sherlock. I'm sure athletecured will be along presently to clear up any possible confusion.
Hondo's plans for a huge tower on Pope's Road, Brixton and the Brixton Project
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nick
Pleomorphic Adenomas R us
They contacted me by PM after the above post (and my previous dig at the logorrhoea in the press release).
They're retired from this thread
I suggested answers to this would help:
They told me the questions will be answered at the end this week. I took that to mean as a part of the Friday meeting - to which everyone is invited
===============
ETA - I'm assuming it is bad form to quote from PMs without express permission. Which I don't have - so I haven't
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
l would have gone on Friday. I may catch some of it.
None of the questions of BP asked here were that difficult to answer.
Zoom meetings are easy to manage as if you host them you can block people from speaking.
The main difference between Zoom/ Teamwork and public face to face meeting is that one can shut people up pretty easily.
It is much easier to manage a Zoom/ Teamwork meeting than a face to face one.
Just stop them from speaking by turning off mike
None of the questions of BP asked here were that difficult to answer.
Zoom meetings are easy to manage as if you host them you can block people from speaking.
The main difference between Zoom/ Teamwork and public face to face meeting is that one can shut people up pretty easily.
It is much easier to manage a Zoom/ Teamwork meeting than a face to face one.
Just stop them from speaking by turning off mike
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Thinking on it why should people be expected to put in a lot of time and effort into setting up some new kind of organisation?
For all the language and theory of nodes, holocratic managemen don't think BP reallly understand management.
You don't see solution to a problem as getting people to spend time setting up new organisation.
You look at what's there first.
There are plenty of active community groups out there who only just manage to keep going. People have little time to volunteer. So encourage people to join existing groups.
Second problem is groups that do exist aren't listened to by those with the power. So people join them then think it is waste of time and leave. Ive seen this happen.
Third issue is power. This follows from second. Council have power given to them as State institutions. People like McWilliams have power as this society is set up so those with wealth have influence.
After this exchange which BP have withdrawn from Im none the wiser about there relationship with Hondo or what this new organisation they have been talking to Council about is.
Are BP still consultants for Hondo? Now the planning application is agreed. I don't know.
For all the language and theory of nodes, holocratic managemen don't think BP reallly understand management.
You don't see solution to a problem as getting people to spend time setting up new organisation.
You look at what's there first.
There are plenty of active community groups out there who only just manage to keep going. People have little time to volunteer. So encourage people to join existing groups.
Second problem is groups that do exist aren't listened to by those with the power. So people join them then think it is waste of time and leave. Ive seen this happen.
Third issue is power. This follows from second. Council have power given to them as State institutions. People like McWilliams have power as this society is set up so those with wealth have influence.
After this exchange which BP have withdrawn from Im none the wiser about there relationship with Hondo or what this new organisation they have been talking to Council about is.
Are BP still consultants for Hondo? Now the planning application is agreed. I don't know.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Stuck myself on the invite list.
Read this,
Is this the last minute report? Tricky Skills
If so I haven't seen it.
Any links to it?
Read this,
Is this the last minute report? Tricky Skills
If so I haven't seen it.
Any links to it?
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Looking at the agenda of the meeting and it is pushed towards setting up a new organisation.
If one wants to hear about BP reports of chats with Council that is at 12.55
Looks to me that the meeting will be heavily managed.
Set up as first process to have new organisation.
So it is not general discussion. The meeting has a purpose set by BP.
www.eventbrite.co.uk
If one wants to hear about BP reports of chats with Council that is at 12.55
Looks to me that the meeting will be heavily managed.
Set up as first process to have new organisation.
So it is not general discussion. The meeting has a purpose set by BP.
Community Involvement in The Future of Brixton – Planning Meeting
Establishing a co-design process for Brixton.
www.eventbrite.co.uk
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
Architect's Journal has a very pro-tower column. Apparently the people who oppose the tower are miserabilists: Adjaye’s Brixton project deserves praise not brickbats
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Sometimes I read stuff by middle class professionals , like Paul Finch the editor of AJ, and part way through cannot believe the person who wrote this can be a middle class professional.
He is entirely ignoring that this height goes against the Local Plan planning guidelines. That it is a deviation from the local Plan. That it is adjacent to a Conservation Area.
I can see that as a local resident of South London. He does not.
Instead he takes cheap swipe at what he calls the "miserablist tendency".
That would be Heritage England and Brixton Society.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
If I'd been on the planning committee I'd have voted against - and I can't see how this tower is some sort of breath of fresh air which will reinvigorate Brixton.
I also feel certain that there has been an abuse of process which has forced the project through the planning process on unchecked petition submissions and a load of bollocks about business development which cannot possibly be verified in the middle of a viral disease epidemic of international proportions.
Personally I would have thought the council should have put this application on hold until - say - a year after Coronvirus seems to be receding into history.
As the council have pressed ahead and accepted possibly fake petitions, the objectors now find themselves in the unenviabkle position of Donald Trump.
Putting forward process objections which may be costly to present in court, and only minority believe anyway - many of the rest being don't knows or don't cares.
Sir David Adjaye's firms's design is an improvement on the Sports Direct building - but how does it look different from Centre Point as served up in Camden/Tottenham Court Road by Richard Seifert and partners. Seiffert's design was done sixty years ago and the building competed 55 years ago - by George Wimpey Construction. Not much originality now 60 years on then.
As can be seen Adhaye's design is a more modest 20 storeys, compared to Centre Point's 34 - but the ethos is the same.
So what's original then?
I'm not going to lose sleep over this. What offends me is the idea of an international architect apparently getting a spurious petition in to the council's planning department - and the planning department accepting it with no checks.
Now the planners are seeking to consult on all the Lambeth conservation areas. God help us.
urbanspaceman
Well-Known Member
Community Involvement in The Future of Brixton – Planning Meeting
Establishing a co-design process for Brixton.
www.eventbrite.co.uk
For anybody interested, this meeting arranged by the Brixton Project is taking place now.
urbanspaceman
Well-Known Member
First question, from Bill Linksey, is about who funds Brixton Project.
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urbanspaceman
Well-Known Member
Hondo funding for BP: April 2020 creative and cultural placemaking, across Brixton Village and Popes Road: £8k (plus previous project of £6k)
Then Hondo paid for survey related to Popes Road development, became submission to PAC. BP cancelled its invoices for this work
Then Hondo paid for survey related to Popes Road development, became submission to PAC. BP cancelled its invoices for this work
editor
hiraethified
I've no idea what 'creative and cultural placemaking' is, but a cool £14,000 - plus a leading role in running the community space in the Hondo tower - sure sounds like a result.
Please keep us posted!
urbanspaceman
Well-Known Member
I have to leave the meeting now, but BP is recording and minuting this meeting. I note that a person from Brixton Bugle attending.
urbanspaceman
Well-Known Member
Something I have been struck by is sheer opacity of BP's language, e.g.
"With the community as client and active agent, in robust conversation with the Council and commercial stakeholders from inception to operation, this plan has a chance to build on the lessons of former interventions that have failed to create power and empowerment for local people in central Brixton"
I don't think this is merely nitpicking. During the Zoom meeting, BP was at pains to underline its commitment to inclusiveness across all the people of Brixton. But according an online tool, the Fleischer-Kincaid grade index of BP's prose requires graduate-level comprehension, and will be intelligible to only about 30% of the general public. It's difficult to be inclusive if 70% of people don't know what you're talking about, me included actually. BP's prose is a trifecta of gobbledegook, a turgid blend of civic bureaucratese, post-modern academic jargon and architectural-theoretic blither-blather.
"With the community as client and active agent, in robust conversation with the Council and commercial stakeholders from inception to operation, this plan has a chance to build on the lessons of former interventions that have failed to create power and empowerment for local people in central Brixton"
I don't think this is merely nitpicking. During the Zoom meeting, BP was at pains to underline its commitment to inclusiveness across all the people of Brixton. But according an online tool, the Fleischer-Kincaid grade index of BP's prose requires graduate-level comprehension, and will be intelligible to only about 30% of the general public. It's difficult to be inclusive if 70% of people don't know what you're talking about, me included actually. BP's prose is a trifecta of gobbledegook, a turgid blend of civic bureaucratese, post-modern academic jargon and architectural-theoretic blither-blather.
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editor
hiraethified
I think it's intentional. That way they keep their club full of people like them and exclude the opinions of the vast majority of the local community.Something I have been struck by is sheer opacity of BP's language, e.g.
"With the community as client and active agent, in robust conversation with the Council and commercial stakeholders from inception to operation, this plan has a chance to build on the lessons of former interventions that have failed to create power and empowerment for local people in central Brixton"
I don't think this is merely nitpicking. During the Zoom meeting, BP was at pains to underline its commitment to inclusiveness across all the people of Brixton. But according a an online tool, the Fleischer-Kincaid grade index of BP's prose requires graduate-level comprehension, and will be intelligible to only about 30% of the general public. It's difficult to be inclusive if 70% of people don't know what you're talking about, me included actually. BP's prose is a trifecta of gobbledegook, a turgid blend of civic bureaucratese, post-modern academic jargon and architectural theory blither-blather.
urbanspaceman
Well-Known Member
Here is a message sent by BP to participants in the Zoom call earlier today:
Dear all,
A massive thank you to everyone who took part in the meeting earlier.
Regardless of where we are all coming from with our views on Brixton, development, the Council or Pope’s Road, to have over 50 people able to sit in the same room and slug it out is an incredibly special thing.
Can’t be many meetings that go from the failings of the pl anning system to full-blown revolution and back again, right?
If you weren’t able to make it, the whole 2hrs+ was recorded. You can find the minutes, together with links to the video, FAQs and the Brixton Project report here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Geknph3C2KoBd7nMm3tNeRCXQd2yyx8e7HTnI0el0_4/edit
We’re sure everyone would like to take a wee while to reflect, but hope you all agree we need more of this, and we need more clarity over structure / approach – to make this happen, and to make sure it reaches deep into Brixton.
At the risk of turning this email into one of those inspirational Insta posts, we’ll leave you with these mighty words:
“The exercise of imagination is dangerous to those who profit from the way things are because it has the power to show that the way things are is not permanent, not universal, not necessary… We will not be free if we do not imagine freedom.” Ursula K. Le Guin
Have wonderful weekends all, and let us know how you want to follow this up.
x Charlie, Binki, Polly, Sarah, Jess and Phil
Dear all,
A massive thank you to everyone who took part in the meeting earlier.
Regardless of where we are all coming from with our views on Brixton, development, the Council or Pope’s Road, to have over 50 people able to sit in the same room and slug it out is an incredibly special thing.
Can’t be many meetings that go from the failings of the pl anning system to full-blown revolution and back again, right?
If you weren’t able to make it, the whole 2hrs+ was recorded. You can find the minutes, together with links to the video, FAQs and the Brixton Project report here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Geknph3C2KoBd7nMm3tNeRCXQd2yyx8e7HTnI0el0_4/edit
We’re sure everyone would like to take a wee while to reflect, but hope you all agree we need more of this, and we need more clarity over structure / approach – to make this happen, and to make sure it reaches deep into Brixton.
At the risk of turning this email into one of those inspirational Insta posts, we’ll leave you with these mighty words:
“The exercise of imagination is dangerous to those who profit from the way things are because it has the power to show that the way things are is not permanent, not universal, not necessary… We will not be free if we do not imagine freedom.” Ursula K. Le Guin
Have wonderful weekends all, and let us know how you want to follow this up.
x Charlie, Binki, Polly, Sarah, Jess and Phil
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Christ that is aggravating that they quote Ursula K Le Guin.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Good old Bill one of the stalwarts of the Brixton Society.
Brixton Society ( Im a member) have for years quietly got on with sticking up for Brixton.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Listened to first half of the audio.
Bill from the Brixton Society was very good.
Trying to get answers to what BPs involvement with Hondo is or was. What they got paid for.
Bill makes the good point that absolute independence is a must.
That Lambeth have form in encouraging groups which follow what they want to do. And freezing other groups out.
Carnegie Libary is example. Council would not listen to the Friends group. But did listen to the Carnegie Trust.
I think what Bill was getting at is the danger the new group that BP want to start will not be absolutely independent.
( Bill asked a lot of good questions. Im still not clear if BP have severed all links with Hondo in the future. If the building is built will they curate the "community" space? BP say they did not invoice Hondo for last two potential invoices re the planning application)
The meeting did not follow the agenda after Bills questions.
A lot of questions directed at BP.
BP said they have had been having talks with the Council about a new group. They argue that they have built up links with officers and some Cllrs. ( and they mentione Brixton BID I noticed )That have been paid by Lambeth for work. Example on the Creative Enterprise Zone.
What BP do not appear to understand is the difference between a CIC and a Society like Brixton Society.
At one point BP said this new group was to help people come together not to compete for funds. Bill had to point out to BP that Brixton Society dont compete for funds with anyone else. They are self funding by the membership.
There is a difference between a pressure group and a CIC like Brixton Project.
BP say that the new group would not be run by them and they are only interested in setting it up.
Binki said it is about starting a "different conversation". Bill replied "who start a conversation with? What conversation are you talking about?
( going back to his earlier comment that this Labour Council of many years freeze out groups/ individuals do question or disagree with them)
I must say I did not hear clear answer to that.
I still don't understand after getting half way through this why time and energy needs to be spent on a new umbrella organisation. Part funded by the Council through Section 106 money.
I also see the danger that could be used to tick the consultation box for the Council.
Bill from the Brixton Society was very good.
Trying to get answers to what BPs involvement with Hondo is or was. What they got paid for.
Bill makes the good point that absolute independence is a must.
That Lambeth have form in encouraging groups which follow what they want to do. And freezing other groups out.
Carnegie Libary is example. Council would not listen to the Friends group. But did listen to the Carnegie Trust.
I think what Bill was getting at is the danger the new group that BP want to start will not be absolutely independent.
( Bill asked a lot of good questions. Im still not clear if BP have severed all links with Hondo in the future. If the building is built will they curate the "community" space? BP say they did not invoice Hondo for last two potential invoices re the planning application)
The meeting did not follow the agenda after Bills questions.
A lot of questions directed at BP.
BP said they have had been having talks with the Council about a new group. They argue that they have built up links with officers and some Cllrs. ( and they mentione Brixton BID I noticed )That have been paid by Lambeth for work. Example on the Creative Enterprise Zone.
What BP do not appear to understand is the difference between a CIC and a Society like Brixton Society.
At one point BP said this new group was to help people come together not to compete for funds. Bill had to point out to BP that Brixton Society dont compete for funds with anyone else. They are self funding by the membership.
There is a difference between a pressure group and a CIC like Brixton Project.
BP say that the new group would not be run by them and they are only interested in setting it up.
Binki said it is about starting a "different conversation". Bill replied "who start a conversation with? What conversation are you talking about?
( going back to his earlier comment that this Labour Council of many years freeze out groups/ individuals do question or disagree with them)
I must say I did not hear clear answer to that.
I still don't understand after getting half way through this why time and energy needs to be spent on a new umbrella organisation. Part funded by the Council through Section 106 money.
I also see the danger that could be used to tick the consultation box for the Council.
editor
hiraethified
On Buzz, thanks to urbanspaceman
www.brixtonbuzz.com
The Brixton Project – the ‘community group’ who intentionally exclude most of their audience
At Brixton Buzz, we’ve long rallied against the divisive, exclusive and downright incomprehensible jargon that self-elected community representatives The Brixton Project have been spouting r…
www.brixtonbuzz.com
editor
hiraethified
Please sign. It's not over yet! Campaigners call on Sadiq Khan to reverse Lambeth council’s decision to approve huge Hondo Brixton tower block
RoyReed
Must fly!
Signed
Torpid Scorpion
Basket case
Signed
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
I know several of the BP people. Their hearts are in the right place. They've made huge contributions to Brixton life. They've lived here forever. They're about as plugged-in to the community as it's possible to be. If you care about Brixton it's bonkers to attack them. Pillorying them for their choice of words in some of their communications is pathetic and childish. Why not work with them? Meet them, talk to them? If you carry on with the playground level sniping, you'll be left out of useful propects, and you deserve it. They've offered olive branches, but you'd rather be stroppy and irrelevant because you have no insight into your personality problems.
editor
hiraethified
If you can't work out why people are as angry as fuck with the Brixton Project for facilitating the approval of an unwanted megablock in Brixton while failing to reveal the fact that they were being financed by the developers all along, you've really lost touch with the community.
What are my 'personality problems' by the way? And why do you think it's OK for a self-elected 'community' project to use language that excludes the vast majority of locals who might want to engage with them?
wurlycurly
diss member
Nobody can deny that they've made a 'huge contribution to Brixton life'. Very, very huge. If they were so 'plugged into the community' they would have backed the thousands of locals who opposed the tower in writing.
I guess they've sold out.
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