Help me explain to my teenager why Thatcher was bad.

[Johnny Canuck3]

I can't read the board for you.

What are you talking about?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Easy. What you do is sacrifice the lives and well being of millions of people, scare the shit out of millions of others and grease the palms of a few. It's disaster capitilism, fear and treats. She was a heinous cunt. She didn't 'win' three elections, the opposition lost because they were cunts too.

In other words, she wasn't actually popular with any British citizen - they just voted for her and elected her three times because they were afraid of her?

 

[shifting gears]

In other words, she wasn't actually popular with any British citizen - they just voted for her and elected her three times because they were afraid of her?

You're clearly being obtuse. Unpopular politicians have always won free elections by virtue of many factors: poorly organised opposition, propaganda, low voter turnout among key demographics, scare-mongering, political opportunism, superior funding... The list is fucking endless.

And clearly, she was very popular... With a certain type of British citizen. Namely self-centred, selfish, narcissistic types, who bought into the filth she peddled - to look after oneself, feel no compassion towards those less well off, as long as number one was thriving then all was well. The thrust of my argument is that these kind of people are morally bankrupt - but then that's Tories all over.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

And clearly, she was very popular... With a certain type of British citizen. Namely self-centred, selfish, narcissistic types, who bought into the filth she peddled - to look after oneself, feel no compassion towards those less well off, as long as number one was thriving then all was well. The thrust of my argument is that these kind of people are morally bankrupt - but then that's Tories all over.

She was apparently popular with a majority of voting Britons through three elections.

 

[ymu]

Nope. Try again.

 

[Buckaroo]

Hitler was popular too. The nasty kind of populism that thrives on base prejudice, exploits fear, divides communities and before you know it, milions of people are fucked over, millions of others go along with it cos they don't know what else to do and a few are minted. It's that same kind of shit.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

What is that law called again?

Godwin's. That's it.

Seventies Britain sounds pretty grim; but not as grim as Germany in the Thirties.

 

[scifisam]

What is that law called again?

Godwin's. That's it.

Seventies Britain sounds pretty grim; but not as grim as Germany in the Thirties.

Who said it was? It's valid to point out Hitler as an example of a monster who was democratically elected (at first). I mean, you're not going to claim that his election means he can't have been that bad, are you?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Who said it was? It's valid to point out Hitler as an example of a monster who was democratically elected (at first). I mean, you're not going to claim that his election means he can't have been that bad, are you?

I'm not sure that Hitler and Thatcher are quite of the same ilk; but I'm open to hearing the argument.

 

[DotCommunist]

Who said it was? It's valid to point out Hitler as an example of a monster who was democratically elected (at first). I mean, you're not going to claim that his election means he can't have been that bad, are you?

point of order- hitler never was elected. He was appointed to position in 1933 by hindenburg after the NDSAP got 37% of the vote

iirc.

 

[Streathamite]

How could such a person legitimately win three successive elections?

Again, the numbers. Thatcher governed on behalf of, and for, the ruling class, the middle classes and (many of) the aspirational working classes of (for the most part) the South of England, and they were the ones who voted her in. She never got more than 42% of the vote (on turnouts of c.70%).Under her watch the Toriues also went from being a party with broad national appeal, to aparty whose support is almost entirely confined to those areas. They still are; reduced to a rump in Scotland, Wales and Northern England, and in the big cities it took them to 2010 to recover some strength in London and the West Midlands).
Those people revered and idolised her, for smashing them pesky, mutinous plebs. The rest of the country hated her, with a passion. In short, she was the most divisive PM ever.
Plus, in '79 Labour were rendered less popular than Herpes by the Winter of Discontent, and in '83 it was the Falklands wot won it for her, absolutely.

 

[Streathamite]

In other words, she wasn't actually popular with any British citizen - they just voted for her and elected her three times because they were afraid of her?

Johnny, have a look at the Psephology of those 3 elections, before making such broad, sweeping statements.

 

[ymu]

point of order- hitler never was elected. He was appointed to position in 1933 by hindenburg after the NDSAP got 37% of the vote

iirc.

Thatcher never got much more. 43% max, 39% min, IIRC.

It's a pretty fine hair to split.

 

[Dr_Herbz]

Explain it yourself.. .If you're big enough and old enough to have kids, then you should be big enough to explain shit to them, ffs!

 

[ymu]

Fuck off. It's a good thread.

 

[Pickman's model]

point of order- hitler never was elected. He was appointed to position in 1933 by hindenburg after the NDSAP got 37% of the vote

iirc.

Wasn't he elected to the reichstag?

 

[Pickman's model]

Explain it yourself.. .If you're big enough and old enough to have kids, then you should be big enough to explain shit to them, ffs!

The 'where does shit come from' thread is --> over there

 

[Streathamite]

point of order- hitler never was elected. He was appointed to position in 1933 by hindenburg after the NDSAP got 37% of the vote

iirc.

same applies to Cameron, in a way

 

[DotCommunist]

I don't think so, would have to look it up, but I don't think the nazis got enough seats...

@pickman


e2a oh I see what you mean, yes.

 

[pissflaps]

Explain it yourself.. .If you're big enough and old enough to have kids, then you should be big enough to explain shit to them, ffs!

http://cdn.hark.com/swfs/player_fb.swf?pid=jnpmbgnhqm

 

[scifisam]

point of order- hitler never was elected. He was appointed to position in 1933 by hindenburg after the NDSAP got 37% of the vote

iirc.

By that measure you could say Thatcher was never elected.

Johnny, you're deliberately missing the point.

 

[scifisam]

Explain it yourself.. .If you're big enough and old enough to have kids, then you should be big enough to explain shit to them, ffs!

I think you need to learn to read thread titles.

 

[ViolentPanda]

point of order- hitler never was elected. He was appointed to position in 1933 by hindenburg after the NDSAP got 37% of the vote

iirc.

He was offered the vice-chancellorship, turned it down and demanded the chancellorship, or he'd take his ball (and his 34% of the vote) home. Von Papen etc were convinced they could keep Hitler under their thumb, and that his Nazis would make a good adjunct to their right-conservatives. They were wrong. Hitler's first action as Chancellor was to promulgate the Enabling Law, which effectively dismissed (but did not dissolve - he wasn't stupid) Parliament until such time as he recalled them. Papen and his merry men (except Hindenburg, who karked soon after Hitler seized power) got theirs within a year and mostly ended up exiles or as detainees in concentration camps.

 

[ViolentPanda]

By that measure you could say Thatcher was never elected.

Not really. Different systems. Ours acknowledges that we don't elect a specific person as Prime Minister, the party with the majority traditionally places their leader in that role. In the case of Germany, the head of State (in this case von Hindenburg) was the person with the task of forming a government. That meant soliciting the electoral power of the various blocs. He gambled that Hitler's compliance could be bought with the chancellorship (a position entirely in his gift). Germany lost that gamble.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Plus, in '79 Labour were rendered less popular than Herpes by the Winter of Discontent, and in '83 it was the Falklands wot won it for her, absolutely.

By the media construction known as "the Winter of Discontent", anyway. At the time it was "oh well, same old same old", but as we got into the '80s and the '90s, the real narrative (of a thousand little things all coming together to ensure people were prepared for "change") was lost to the simplistic construction referred to as "the Winter of Discontent", where media headlines, some more fiction than fact, became a handy trope for "why Maggie won".

 

[Streathamite]

By the media construction known as "the Winter of Discontent", anyway. At the time it was "oh well, same old same old", but as we got into the '80s and the '90s, the real narrative (of a thousand little things all coming together to ensure people were prepared for "change") was lost to the simplistic construction referred to as "the Winter of Discontent", where media headlines, some more fiction than fact, became a handy trope for "why Maggie won".

absolutely. TBH, I thought it was so bleedin' obvious that it was a huge retrospective tabloid confection/myth that I didn't spell it out before (plus, not enough time) but actually, this needs spelling out, whenever and wherever possible.
Mind, Labour were unpopular by May 1979

 

[ibilly99]

 

[Buckaroo]

most of us enjoyed members of the IRA getting deleted and look at our snooker cues with a giggle to this day

This is bugging me. What's the snooker cue thing?

 

[Buckaroo]

gunneradt enjoyed the 'deleting' members of the IRA and giggles when he looks at snooker cues. Anyone know what the reference to snooker cues refers to?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Not really. Different systems. Ours acknowledges that we don't elect a specific person as Prime Minister, the party with the majority traditionally places their leader in that role. In the case of Germany, the head of State (in this case von Hindenburg) was the person with the task of forming a government. That meant soliciting the electoral power of the various blocs. He gambled that Hitler's compliance could be bought with the chancellorship (a position entirely in his gift). Germany lost that gamble.

I'm impressed.