Guardian: 'Isis' flag flown in East London

[Limerick Red]

Er, no.

Clue 1: fucking hippies

I was making a life imitating art point, maaaaan!

 

[chilango]

Hmm. I don't think not getting alarmed by, and joking about, the flying of an as yet unidentified flag is elitist at all.

Far from it.

If, and when, this flag is linked to a concrete, organised, grouping with a presence in that area then it may (or may not) become a greater cause for concern.

For the moment to tie this solitary flag into the murder of Lee Rigby and terrorist bomb plots is at best alarmist, at worst downright irresponsible.

 

[Sprocket.]

Alarmist reporting by an organisation that should know better.
If there was any malice intended I think it would be a tad more violent than flying a flag.
For all we know some right wing activist could be responsible.

 

[likesfish]

Thats because nobody normal goes up to a blonde and starts screaming your a nazi
But screaming terrorist has happened if you look brown let alone muslim

 

[quiquaquo]

Nah, it's the ginger ones with big beards wearing camouflage you need to worry about. Think Omar al-Shishani.

 

[framed]

I think this flag business needs to be taken more seriously. It reads to me the same as like someone on facebook in the US saying, "I'm gonna go to school and shoot everyone", just before they actually go to school and shoot everyone.

Woaah there horsey... How the fcuk did you extrapolate that from a flag flying on a gateway in east London?

 

[Poi E]

edited because islam sucks

 

[likesfish]

Nah, it's the ginger ones with big beards wearing camouflage you need to worry about. Think Omar al-Shishani.

Fortunatly are version is jordon horner who when not in jail isnt allowed pointed scissors let alone an ak or a suicide vest does like his pies though

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think the playing down and ridiculing of this issue on this thread is a form of Elitism.

Frankly, I'd rather "play this down", than give it the oxygen of publicity, not least because we don't know what the flag said, and therefore what it indicated about those flying it.
As a veteran anti-fascist, I've always preferred putting the boot into people I know are guilty, not on the word of some hack who saw a flag that looked like a radical Islamist flag, and constructed an article around that.
That's not elitism, it's rational behaviour.

 

[ViolentPanda]

To me it is not about guardian reporting but about the fact that this flag was placed and where it was placed. Playing it down is being tooo politically correct IMO, and therefore elitist.

Mate, read some history. Playing it down is entirely rational given the role of the press in creating and fostering moral panics. "Measure twice, cut once" is always a good proverb to follow.

After the intimidatory patrols, the murder of a soldier in london, various bomb plots and seeing what is going on in the world, this does not sit easily with the majority of people. It is not something that flits by and is forgotten. making fun of the woman who took it down is crass.

The elitism part comes in when you are aloof and dsimissive when the majority are frothing at the mouth with outrage.

Are they? Or has the media pushed some buttons, and elicited some Pavlovian responses that they're playing as the "voice of the majority"? Me, I'm generally more worried about actual violence being employed by swathes of majorities and minorities, not by brush fires that are usually as much to do with the stupidity of a single individual or small group. Look at the threat strategically, then ask yourself if it's actually worth the column inches it has garnered - hint: It isn't - and ask yourself "who benefits from that article?".

 

[ViolentPanda]

Of course she deserves respect. She's practically a hero as far as I am concerned, especially if it is true that she is engaging constructively with the lads that put this flag up. The joke quiquaquo made was about clacton, not Sister Christine.

It's not really fair to make jokes about Clacton. It has enough on its' plate just being Clacton.

 

[Theisticle]

UPDATE, 6pm, August 10 – Flag removed again (after police called)

The agreement of Friday’s estate meeting was, according to someone there, to re-erect the flag somewhere in the estate so long as it was accompanied by a translation of the shahada. That meeting agreed to meet again tomorrow to decide when and where it would go up.

However, last night someone broke that agreement. Key figures on the estate believe Dulal Uddin and others were agitating for it to go up again before tomorrow’s meeting.

I’m told that Sister Christine Frost rang the police this morning to tell them the flag was back up. That’s why, as Cllr Andrew Wood reported in the comments section of this blog, Ch Insp Anderson was there today.

In fact it was Ch Insp Anderson who supervised the removal of the flag again this afternoon.

Sister Christine has asked Lutfur to ensure that no religious flags are allowed in public places such as that estate. She wants to foster inclusiveness there.

Before the flag was removed again, Poplar and Limehouse MP Jim Fitzpatrick issued this statement:

“If the black flag is indeed a religious symbol and not a jihadist one, it should be displayed in a religious building and not on public property. The Mayor should instruct his officers to remove it as he did on Friday.”

In the meantime, and before Lutfur was aware of Jim’s intervention, the mayor had ordered it again to be removed. He has also asked the council’s youth service to conduct some “serious engagement” work on the estate to ensure the youth (and probably some adults) fully understand the issues.

I’m also told the estate caretakers have been told to look out for flags on their morning rounds, and remove any that have been hoisted again.

http://trialbyjeory.wordpress.com/2...back-up-and-no-apology-for-the-anti-semitism/

 

[chilango]

So it's not an "Isis Flag" at all then?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

There's some strict boundary between religious and political symbols here?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I'm way more concerned about the antisemitism reported here than a bunch of kids picking up a flag that may or may not represent a group they have no connection with and which isn't ISIS in any case.

 

[chilango]

My main concern is how a range of people (journos and local politicos) seem to be eagerly trying to engineer some kinda tension out of a very insignificant act for their own benefit.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

My main concern is how a range of people (journos and local politicos) seem to be eagerly trying to engineer some kinda tension out of a very insignificant act for their own benefit.

Oh certainly. They turn it from something that could be dealt with in the local community if it was a problem at all into an excuse for "extremism" crackdowns and further demonisation.

 

[likesfish]

Flags or flegs we have history with flegs going up and coming down it wasnt good.
Hoisting a fuck off big union jack in a racially diverse area without context could be seen as shit strirring a black flag with arabic on definitly is

 

[gabi]

It does seem a situation of two equally ignorant groups of fuckwits fighting each other. I'm sure the people who put the flag up knew exactly what they were doing, but equally the journos should have run it past it an interpreter. Or at least someone with working eyeballs.

Cunts, either way.

 

[Batboy]

Frankly, I'd rather "play this down", than give it the oxygen of publicity, not least because we don't know what the flag said, and therefore what it indicated about those flying it.
As a veteran anti-fascist, I've always preferred putting the boot into people I know are guilty, not on the word of some hack who saw a flag that looked like a radical Islamist flag, and constructed an article around that.
That's not elitism, it's rational behaviour.

This.

And I would add...

Start bleating in the media about this and the next thing is some nutter reading about it and getting involved at some level (pro or anti). A bigger problem always follows.The intelligence services would be monitoring anyone openly promoting ISIS. Journalists can be such dicks at times.

A Muslim guy who used to work for me told me how he was at a set of traffic lights shortly after 9/11 and a group of young Asian boys pulled up and whisked off their jackets to flash T shirts idolising and promoting Usmah Bin Laden at him with pictures of planes crashed into WTC. He was disgusted but rightly said they were just stupid and didn't understand. This is always the case of 99.99% of people. Someone who was intent on being a terrorist is unlikely to draw attention to themselves by wearing a t shirt or waving a flag.
.

 

[Pickman's model]

This.

And I would add...

Start bleating in the media about this and the next thing is some nutter reading about it and getting involved at some level (pro or anti). A bigger problem always follows.The intelligence services would be monitoring anyone openly promoting ISIS. Journalists can be such dicks at times.

A Muslim guy who used to work for me told me how he was at a set of traffic lights shortly after 9/11 and a group of young Asian boys pulled up and whisked off their jackets to flash T shirts idolising and promoting Usmah Bin Laden at him with pictures of planes crashed into WTC. He was disgusted but rightly said they were just stupid and didn't understand. This is always the case of 99.99% of people. Someone who was intent on being a terrorist is unlikely to draw attention to themselves by wearing a t shirt or waving a flag.
.

netanyahoo very keen to wave the flag

 

[butchersapron]

This.

And I would add...

Start bleating in the media about this and the next thing is some nutter reading about it and getting involved at some level (pro or anti). A bigger problem always follows.The intelligence services would be monitoring anyone openly promoting ISIS. Journalists can be such dicks at times.

.

This is precisely why it was done. It's simple choudry-esque tactics.

 

[Theisticle]

A Met spokesman said they first attended on Friday but the flag had been removed when they arrived.

They added: “Police were made aware of a flag displayed at the Will Crooks Estate again on Sunday, August 10.

“Officers attended the venue, spoke to residents and met local community leaders who removed the flag voluntarily.

“It was not an ISIS flag. There are no criminal offences arising from this incident.”

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...es-of-east-london-council-estate-9660733.html

 

[Batboy]

John

netanyahoo very keen to wave the flag

Indeed hasn't that worked well

 

[cantsin]

It does seem a situation of two equally ignorant groups of fuckwits fighting each other. I'm sure the people who put the flag up knew exactly what they were doing, but equally the journos should have run it past it an interpreter. Or at least someone with working eyeballs.

Cunts, either way.

At the risk of drifting into bleeding heart liberal territory here, not sure how useful it is to equate residents from an estate in one of the poorest boroughs in UK, who seem to determined to display a flag, that one way or another, connects with what has been a slow building reaction to what can be seen (understandably) as US/Western Imperialism (ie : militant islam), as "cunts" on a par with lazy, shit stirring journalists.

Am no fan of militant islam, but you can't lose sight of where / why it grew so quickly from post Shah Iran onwards.

 

[Batboy]

It does seem a situation of two equally ignorant groups of fuckwits fighting each other. I'm sure the people who put the flag up knew exactly what they were doing, but equally the journos should have run it past it an interpreter. Or at least someone with working eyeballs.

Cunts, either way.

Yep and You can bet your bottom dollar that someone will now put up a real ISIS flag somewhere

 

[Pickman's model]

Yep and You can bet your bottom dollar that someone will now put up a real ISIS flag somewhere

 

[goldenecitrone]

English teaching that is head and shoulders, or sometimes, sadly, just shoulders, above all the rest.

 

[Limerick Red]

.

 

[laptop]

English teaching that is head and shoulders, or sometimes, sadly, just shoulders, above all the rest.

But they're always willing to lend a hand...